Brian Kurtz: Building 9M Name Lists

In this episode, Dave interviews Brian Kurtz, founder of Titans Marketing, author of The Advertising Solution, and one of the masterminds behind Boardroom Inc. Brian is a serial direct marketer and over the past 20 years, he estimates he has been responsible for $1.3B pieces of 3rd class mail. Tune in as Brian shares how he built a massive 9M name list, what the 40-40-20 rule is, and why segmentation is extremely important in your lists. 

Time Stamped Show Notes: 

00:33 – Introducing Brian  00:38 – Brian met Dave in Fort Myer  00:53 – Dave talks about American Dream U   01:04 – Brian has just republished a blog post, Masterminding at the Pentagon  01:10 – His blog is about their experience in Pentagon and how the troops can re-career out the military  01:39 – Brian’s biography   03:49 – Is Brian the good guy or the villain in marketing?  03:58 – Marketing being used for good vs evil  04:03 – Brian discusses speaking to a group of entrepreneurs in Hungary  04:33 – His presentation was entitled, Marketing isn’t Everything, It’s the Only Thing  04:43 – The first thing he talked about was the idea that Marketing is NOT evil  05:32 – The difference between selling and marketing  05:48 – Selling is not a chore, it is an obligation  06:22 – Brian has gone from offline marketing to online marketing  06:58 – Email is cheaper than direct mail  07:42 – Brian does NOT use his list to promote affiliates  09:04 – Email has so much ‘junk’  10:21 – The least crowded inbox is the one you grew up with  10:40 – “Everybody’s mailbox is empty with online bill paying”  11:20 – Brian looks at how people are getting his attention through the mail  11:38 – Email marketers always ask Brian if he can help them do a marketing campaign  12:02 – “Direct mail is the new secret weapon”  12:21 – Brian is always referred to in Facebook when someone asks about direct mail  13:00 – “This isn’t about direct mail replacing online”  14:02 – How Brian knows when a mailing is directed to him  16:07 – In direct mail, messages are personalized and addressed individually to people BUT online, you send 1 email message to your entire list  16:24 – Dave shares how he used to work with associations  16:40 – “You can’t just build great stuff or host great content or have a great product – you actually have to market it”  17:21 – Segment your list to know which emails you should send them  17:41 – Brian talks about his experience in segmentation  18:40 – 40-40-20 rule = 40% list, 40% offer, and 20% creative  19:52 – There’s no one-size-fits-all creative  20:01 – Your lists are many lists – there are no unique names, just unique lists  20:18 – Segment as narrow as you can and expand out from there  20:40 – Dave shares about the mail he just received  21:51 – Handwritten letters are awesome  22:34 – Direct mail is still “direct mail”  22:49 – Brian talks about his blog, Christmas Cards in July  24:47 – Put something of significance in the mail  26:27 – “Human beings have not changed because of the internet”  27:22 – Dave shares 3 examples of sending snail mail  27:34 – 1st Dave’s friend, David Hauser who sold Grasshopper  29:02 – 2nd Dave’s salesman, Ryan, used to send out hand-written notes to people  31:05 – Dave is calling out a challenge to all listeners to automate a process and send out hand-written notes  31:20 – Check out Bond.co / Thankbot.com / Maillift.com / FeltApp.com / TheHandWrittenCard.com for hand-written note automations  32:50 – 3rd is the online spam factor—the Nigerian Prince scam  33:48 – SPAM is NOT a good direct marketing strategy  34:40 – Brian explains his new post, How You Sell is How They Will Respond  38:49 – If you sell crappy, stupidly, and with no heart, you will get customers who are exactly like that  39:53 – Getting an email with the “Re:” in the subject line is deceitful  40:31 – “Sometimes, the end can justify the means IF a lot of things are in place”  41:44 – Having something that can help a business grow attracts readers  42:07 – There are things worth doing  42:35 – More about Christmas Cards in July  42:59 – Everybody wants to be thought of and be relevant  43:30 – The value of regifting  45:10 – Taking regifting a step further  45:47 – The key is that they know you are thinking about them  48:27 – Brian’s book, The Advertising Solution is a profile of 6 advertising legends  49:27 – Brian wants to deliver more than a book  49:29 – Direct Marketing’s Rule of Thumb: You always over deliver to the customer  49:59 – Buy the book, send an email with your receipt, and you will get to download the greatest ads written by 6 legends and so much more  51:51 – Buying the book also puts you in Brian’s list which means you’ll have access to all of his free content in BrianKurtz.me  52:36 – Brian encourages you to go to TheLegendsBook.com and take advantage of the resources  53:56 – Dave shares a little secret about the podcast  55:50 – How Brian built his 9M name list  56:03 – Segment, test offers, and write incredible copy  56:40 – Start with expertly segmented list  57:08 – Online and offline efforts are almost the same  57:19 – Believe in your product 100%  58:40 – Find out where your market is  59:19 – Make deals with people who have the lists you need  59:48 – Research on every level  1:00:40 – Brian started with 0 after he left Boardroom  1:01:12 – His list right now is 7,000 which has been built organically  1:01:48 – Brian chooses to build a high-quality list rather than a high-quantity list  1:02:25 – Principles are the same for building a high-quality or high-quantity list  1:05:02 – Dave asks Brian how to become a baseball umpire  1:05:35 – Brian was a good catcher when he was younger  1:06:02 – He was a fat slow kid  1:06:39 – At 13, he couldn’t play but he knew the game well  1:06:50 – He stayed in the game by being the umpire  1:07:57 – When Brian is in a game, he sets everything aside to focus  1:08:15 – He loves the idea of bringing order from chaos  1:08:38 – “It’s a total ego play without ego”  1:09:50 – Check out Brian’s blog post, When Baseball Imitates Direct Marketing  1:10:16 – Dave closes the podcast  1:11:01 – For feedback and recommendations, email Dave at [email protected]  

3 Key Points: 

Direct marketing is not dead – it’s the new “secret weapon.”  People want to be thought of and relevant – show this when mailing them!  Remember to segment your lists – you don’t have unique names but unique lists. 

Resources Mentioned: 

Entrepreneur's Organization – The EO Network  BrianKurtz.me – Brian’s website  The Advertising Solution – Brian’s book 

Credits: 

Show Notes provided by Mallard Creatives

In this episode, Dave interviews Brian Kurtz, founder of Titans Marketing, author of The Advertising Solution, and one of the masterminds behind Boardroom Inc. Brian is a serial direct marketer and over the past 20 years, he estimates he has been responsible for $1.3B pieces of 3rd class mail. Tune in as Brian shares how he built a massive 9M name list, what the 40-40-20 rule is, and why segmentation is extremely important in your lists. 

Time Stamped Show Notes: 

00:33 – Introducing Brian  00:38 – Brian met Dave in Fort Myer  00:53 – Dave talks about American Dream U   01:04 – Brian has just republished a blog post, Masterminding at the Pentagon  01:10 – His blog is about their experience in Pentagon and how the troops can re-career out the military  01:39 – Brian’s biography   03:49 – Is Brian the good guy or the villain in marketing?  03:58 – Marketing being used for good vs evil  04:03 – Brian discusses speaking to a group of entrepreneurs in Hungary  04:33 – His presentation was entitled, Marketing isn’t Everything, It’s the Only Thing  04:43 – The first thing he talked about was the idea that Marketing is NOT evil  05:32 – The difference between selling and marketing  05:48 – Selling is not a chore, it is an obligation  06:22 – Brian has gone from offline marketing to online marketing  06:58 – Email is cheaper than direct mail  07:42 – Brian does NOT use his list to promote affiliates  09:04 – Email has so much ‘junk’  10:21 – The least crowded inbox is the one you grew up with  10:40 – “Everybody’s mailbox is empty with online bill paying”  11:20 – Brian looks at how people are getting his attention through the mail  11:38 – Email marketers always ask Brian if he can help them do a marketing campaign  12:02 – “Direct mail is the new secret weapon”  12:21 – Brian is always referred to in Facebook when someone asks about direct mail  13:00 – “This isn’t about direct mail replacing online”  14:02 – How Brian knows when a mailing is directed to him  16:07 – In direct mail, messages are personalized and addressed individually to people BUT online, you send 1 email message to your entire list  16:24 – Dave shares how he used to work with associations  16:40 – “You can’t just build great stuff or host great content or have a great product – you actually have to market it”  17:21 – Segment your list to know which emails you should send them  17:41 – Brian talks about his experience in segmentation  18:40 – 40-40-20 rule = 40% list, 40% offer, and 20% creative  19:52 – There’s no one-size-fits-all creative  20:01 – Your lists are many lists – there are no unique names, just unique lists  20:18 – Segment as narrow as you can and expand out from there  20:40 – Dave shares about the mail he just received  21:51 – Handwritten letters are awesome  22:34 – Direct mail is still “direct mail”  22:49 – Brian talks about his blog, Christmas Cards in July  24:47 – Put something of significance in the mail  26:27 – “Human beings have not changed because of the internet”  27:22 – Dave shares 3 examples of sending snail mail  27:34 – 1st Dave’s friend, David Hauser who sold Grasshopper  29:02 – 2nd Dave’s salesman, Ryan, used to send out hand-written notes to people  31:05 – Dave is calling out a challenge to all listeners to automate a process and send out hand-written notes  31:20 – Check out Bond.co / Thankbot.com / Maillift.com / FeltApp.com / TheHandWrittenCard.com for hand-written note automations  32:50 – 3rd is the online spam factor—the Nigerian Prince scam  33:48 – SPAM is NOT a good direct marketing strategy  34:40 – Brian explains his new post, How You Sell is How They Will Respond  38:49 – If you sell crappy, stupidly, and with no heart, you will get customers who are exactly like that  39:53 – Getting an email with the “Re:” in the subject line is deceitful  40:31 – “Sometimes, the end can justify the means IF a lot of things are in place”  41:44 – Having something that can help a business grow attracts readers  42:07 – There are things worth doing  42:35 – More about Christmas Cards in July  42:59 – Everybody wants to be thought of and be relevant  43:30 – The value of regifting  45:10 – Taking regifting a step further  45:47 – The key is that they know you are thinking about them  48:27 – Brian’s book, The Advertising Solution is a profile of 6 advertising legends  49:27 – Brian wants to deliver more than a book  49:29 – Direct Marketing’s Rule of Thumb: You always over deliver to the customer  49:59 – Buy the book, send an email with your receipt, and you will get to download the greatest ads written by 6 legends and so much more  51:51 – Buying the book also puts you in Brian’s list which means you’ll have access to all of his free content in BrianKurtz.me  52:36 – Brian encourages you to go to TheLegendsBook.com and take advantage of the resources  53:56 – Dave shares a little secret about the podcast  55:50 – How Brian built his 9M name list  56:03 – Segment, test offers, and write incredible copy  56:40 – Start with expertly segmented list  57:08 – Online and offline efforts are almost the same  57:19 – Believe in your product 100%  58:40 – Find out where your market is  59:19 – Make deals with people who have the lists you need  59:48 – Research on every level  1:00:40 – Brian started with 0 after he left Boardroom  1:01:12 – His list right now is 7,000 which has been built organically  1:01:48 – Brian chooses to build a high-quality list rather than a high-quantity list  1:02:25 – Principles are the same for building a high-quality or high-quantity list  1:05:02 – Dave asks Brian how to become a baseball umpire  1:05:35 – Brian was a good catcher when he was younger  1:06:02 – He was a fat slow kid  1:06:39 – At 13, he couldn’t play but he knew the game well  1:06:50 – He stayed in the game by being the umpire  1:07:57 – When Brian is in a game, he sets everything aside to focus  1:08:15 – He loves the idea of bringing order from chaos  1:08:38 – “It’s a total ego play without ego”  1:09:50 – Check out Brian’s blog post, When Baseball Imitates Direct Marketing  1:10:16 – Dave closes the podcast  1:11:01 – For feedback and recommendations, email Dave at [email protected]  

3 Key Points: 

Direct marketing is not dead – it’s the new “secret weapon.”  People want to be thought of and relevant – show this when mailing them!  Remember to segment your lists – you don’t have unique names but unique lists. 

Resources Mentioned: 

Entrepreneur's Organization – The EO Network  BrianKurtz.me – Brian’s website  The Advertising Solution – Brian’s book 

Credits: 

Show Notes provided by Mallard Creatives