A Mother Explains Her Experience between Mommy and Me Swim Lessons vs Infant Swim Lessons

Today's podcast we are talking with Nicole Nusshag. A Mother Explains Her Experience between Mommy and Me Swim Lessons vs Infant Swim Lessons. She is a mother who started her daughter off in a mommy and me swim lessons and then learned about infant swim. After learning about infant swim lessons and getting her daughter involved and skilled. She moved to Arizona and realized that she still had the need from these lessons and there was nobody around that was able to teach so she took it into her own hand and became an Infant Swim Instructor.

Listen to this episode as Nicole a Mother explains the difference between these two types of classes and what you should consider and why?

Rick: "There's a lot more that goes into this, then just say going down to the local YMCA and learning how to swim.""Nicole: As soon as a child is old enough to roll over on land, they're old enough to be able to be taught to roll over in the water."

Rick: A Mommy and Me Class - So a 30 minute class on individual instruction with the instructor. How much time was the instructor actually spending with you and your baby?

Nicole:One-on-one? Maybe two minutes if that.

Rick:So, you're paying for a 30-minute class and getting two minutes' worth of instruction.

Nicole: But with me, it's 10 minutes. I'm working the entire time, the child, we'll be tired after the 10 minutes like they're done. And there are some kids that, they're done at say seven or eight minutes, they're just done and we have to call it. It was a good productive lesson that day, and the reason why the lessons are so short is that they get tired.

Rick: Welcome to DW nation, everyone. This is your host, Rick Kauffman with the drowning warrior podcast. We've got a guest here with us today. We're actually going to be talking to an infant swim specialist actually with Aqua babies survival swim school. And this is Nicole Nusshag and she is in Vail or otherwise a suburb of Tucson, Arizona. So if you're familiar with the Tucson, Arizona, that area, I'm sure you're aware of the climate, the type of homes, everything like that. So it's summer, I would say almost all year except for today. Okay. So welcome Nicole and welcome to the drowning warrior podcast here today.
Nicole: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here.
Rick: Well, we're happy to have you. And actually we kind of met just kind of live, give a how we met you ran across one of our previous podcasts and then started looking into things and found me on social media and found a couple of our, you found our Facebook community, which is DW nation, which is a private community there. And you've engaged with us in that area. And then we'll you and I jumped on a really nice phone call with your daughter and as your daughter was the leader of that phone conversation, we had a really, really good time and I learned a lot about you and vice versa. So why don't you just take a moment, let our listeners know about a little bit about your background and how and what we're going to get into this survival swimming, you know, a conversation, but how you really got involved in that.
Nicole: Okay. Yeah. So,
Nicole: I grew up swimming around pools and lakes and rivers. I grew up in Washington state, so there's water all over the place there. And that was just, that was part of our lifestyle was being in the water in the summertime. And when I had my first child in 2015, that's when it really started setting in the dangers of water and children. And I wanted to make sure that, that my child, now, you know, I have more than one now, but, but I wanted to make sure that they were going to be comfortable around the water, be able to swim. And kind of have the same lifestyle that I had, being able to enjoy the water in the hot weather or any time. So I started looking into getting her into swim lessons
Nicole: Early on. She was four months old at the time when I,

Today’s podcast we are talking with Nicole Nusshag. A Mother Explains Her Experience between Mommy and Me Swim Lessons vs Infant Swim Lessons. She is a mother who started her daughter off in a mommy and me swim lessons and then learned about infant swim. After learning about infant swim lessons and getting her daughter involved and skilled. She moved to Arizona and realized that she still had the need from these lessons and there was nobody around that was able to teach so she took it into her own hand and became an Infant Swim Instructor.

Listen to this episode as Nicole a Mother explains the difference between these two types of classes and what you should consider and why?

Rick: “There’s a lot more that goes into this, then just say going down to the local YMCA and learning how to swim.”

“Nicole: As soon as a child is old enough to roll over on land, they’re old enough to be able to be taught to roll over in the water.”

Rick:
A Mommy and Me Class – So a 30 minute class on individual instruction with the instructor. How much time was the instructor actually spending with you and your baby?

Nicole:
One-on-one? Maybe two minutes if that.

Rick:
So, you’re paying for a 30-minute class and getting two minutes’ worth of instruction.

Nicole:
But with me, it’s 10 minutes. I’m working the entire time, the child, we’ll be tired after the 10 minutes like they’re done. And there are some kids that, they’re done at say seven or eight minutes, they’re just done and we have to call it. It was a good productive lesson that day, and the reason why the lessons are so short is that they get tired.

Rick: Welcome to DW nation, everyone. This is your host, Rick Kauffman with the drowning warrior podcast. We've got a guest here with us today. We're actually going to be talking to an infant swim specialist actually with Aqua babies survival swim school. And this is Nicole Nusshag and she is in Vail or otherwise a suburb of Tucson, Arizona. So if you're familiar with the Tucson, Arizona, that area, I'm sure you're aware of the climate, the type of homes, everything like that. So it's summer, I would say almost all year except for today. Okay. So welcome Nicole and welcome to the drowning warrior podcast here today.

Nicole: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here.

Rick: Well, we're happy to have you. And actually we kind of met just kind of live, give a how we met you ran across one of our previous podcasts and then started looking into things and found me on social media and found a couple of our, you found our Facebook community, which is DW nation, which is a private community there. And you've engaged with us in that area. And then we'll you and I jumped on a really nice phone call with your daughter and as your daughter was the leader of that phone conversation, we had a really, really good time and I learned a lot about you and vice versa. So why don't you just take a moment, let our listeners know about a little bit about your background and how and what we're going to get into this survival swimming, you know, a conversation, but how you really got involved in that.

Nicole: Okay. Yeah. So,

Nicole: I grew up swimming around pools and lakes and rivers. I grew up in Washington state, so there's water all over the place there. And that was just, that was part of our lifestyle was being in the water in the summertime. And when I had my first child in 2015, that's when it really started setting in the dangers of water and children. And I wanted to make sure that, that my child, now, you know, I have more than one now, but, but I wanted to make sure that they were going to be comfortable around the water, be able to swim. And kind of have the same lifestyle that I had, being able to enjoy the water in the hot weather or any time. So I started looking into getting her into swim lessons

Nicole: Early on. She was four months old at the time when I, we started our first swim lesson and it was a mommy and me cause at that time that's really all there is available. But while I was pregnant with her, I'd seen a video of a baby who had fallen into the water, off the steps of a pool grabbing for a ball or some kind of a toy and the baby rolled over and floated on her back. So while I really enjoyed this mommy and me class, I did it for about four months. I really enjoyed it, but I knew that she wasn't still safe in the water if she was to fall in, she wasn't going to be able to help herself. We ended up moving from Germany to Alabama. We bought our first house with the pool and I started looking into what, finding an instructor that did these lessons where the child can rollover and float.

Nicole: I didn't know what they were called. I just knew that a child was capable of doing it. And surprisingly, I had a really hard time finding what I was looking for. I went and called around to several different people and a lot of them were saying, Oh yeah, once your child is, I think it was four years old, it might be three now. But that once there that age, then they can learn how to swim, but we can't do anything until that age. So it's kind of getting frustrated. And the last place that I went to, there was an infant aquatic certified instructor that was teaching there at, it was actually a local YMC and they said, no, we don't, we don't teach swim lessons for you know, kids as young as your daughter. But there is a guy here that does and his name was Jeffrey Nichols.

Nicole: He runs swimming prep in Prattville, Alabama. And so I called him and talk to him and he said, yep, we can definitely get her going. At the time when I talked to him, I think she was about She was about 14 months old at that time. And so yeah, I got her into lessons and every day that went by everything that I was watching her doing, I was just in complete amazement at what she was capable of doing. You know, I knew that she could go under the water and hold her breath cause we were doing that in the mommy and me class. But by day three she was kicking her legs. She was, he would do what we call a front draft and he was like kind of bringing her towards him and she was kicking her legs. And so anyway, it was just, it was an incredible experience and I was just so happy once she was done with her six weeks knowing that she was safe to play in our backyard.

Nicole: And I mean she was jumping in and just swimming all over the place. It was crazy that summer we were swimming together. I kept it going with her because Jeffrey had me get in the pool at the end and showed me how I could swim with her to keep working with her and keep her skills going. Fast forward to 2018 we had our second child course. I was going to enroll her into lessons as soon as she was six months old and we ended up getting noticed when she was five months old that we were moving to Arizona. So I immediately started looking in into finding it infant, an infant aquatics instructor in the Tucson area. And to my surprise, there was no instructors for me. It wasn't an option to just say, Oh, you know, there's, there's no instructors. I guess she can't learn like I was even as going as far as, I'll go up to Colorado where infant aquatics is based, where all the instructors go to learn.

Nicole: I'll go up to Colorado for six weeks if she needs to learn how to swim. And then I'm like, well, if I'm going to go up there to have her learn, okay, why don't I become an instructor myself? You know, I've kind of already been doing this, working with my oldest daughter for the last, at that point it was about a year. No, it was a year and a half. So that's when I talked to my husband and I said, well maybe this is something I can do. There's obviously a need in Arizona as we know pretty much everybody has a pool and the backyard. Yeah. Where it kind of went to, that's how my story began.

Rick: So it's really a personal mission. I mean, yeah, my children are going to learn and I'm going to have to provide that skill myself, so I need to understand how to teach it and then it kind of took off from there. Let's, let's back up a little bit here and I know one of the things you would like to discuss is kind of the difference between infant survival or survival swimming versus say, traditional swim lessons. Let's back up. You started in a mommy and me class and during this period of time, how did you come to the realization after you saw that video? And I know exactly which video you're talking about, it's about a little girl in a yellow dress. I think she's probably right. Does that sound familiar?

Nicole: I don't remember what she was wearing.

Rick: I believe so. I think that is I, I don't want to say exactly what family, but I believe that's with the family that they're out of West Palm beach felt Florida really involved with yeah, you know, an organization there and everything. So but anyways but I know she was reaching for something and she just toppled in and rolled right over and just like, she was just loved it. I mean like she was floating on her back and just loved it. So you really realize what the mommy and me class a, your child was nowhere even near at that part. What was it that really clicked in your mind? What was your daughter not able to do say versus what you teach now? Say within the first week or two of lessons compared to say a mommy, me

Nicole: Rolling over to breathe, even just swimming cause she would get in the mommy and me class, we would have 'em go down a slide and then she would slide directly to me. So she would go under the water and then I would pick her up. So what that mommy and me class, you know now that looking back what that was teaching her, if I fall in the water, somebody is going to be there to get me. So that was kind of, I don't want to say anything bad about mommy and me classes cause I think they're great. Something to do with your child until they are ready to do the survival swimming classes. But in a way it's almost teaching them that if they fall, go into the water in any way, whether it's a follower, it's an intentional thing that somebody is always going to be there to pick them up.

Rick: Right. So it could be somewhat maybe a sauce. False. yeah. Let's say that again. False sense of security in a way. If they're, you know, and they don't realize the difference between somebody being in the water catching me and somebody's not.

Nicole: Right.

Rick: It's just kind of one of those things at that young age. Yeah, I've, you know, that's an interesting point because I've never looked at it that way. You know, I know a lot of people and I totally agree and understand where you're coming from as far as you know, I guess it depends on what the family or the mother, the father, the family wants to get out of the mommy and me class or what their objective is. I believe their objective is for their child to learn about water, understand water, begin to build a respect for the water and learn how to swim. And it probably sounds like with most, and what I hear from a lot of people is a mommy, me classes aren't really focused on, on say, breath control on any type of skill other than just bonding between mommy and the baby and playing in the water. Is that about correct?

Nicole: Yeah, and I think that that's great. Like I would do all of that over again in a heartbeat because I loved having that one on one time with her being in the water and kind of being that first person to introduce, you know, kind of the fun that she can have in the water. And I would do that over again. But really for me it was like now she's getting to be closer to a year. It was really, really when she started getting to be mobile. Right? So when we bought this house with a pool, she was 11 months old when we bought it and she was just starting to walk. So that for me, that's when I was like, okay, this mommy and me class isn't, isn't doing it for me anymore. She's getting to be mobile. She's walking, she can, you know, start opening doors and sneak in the back.

Nicole: And, and the biggest thing, we all know that children are drawn to water. But the other thing about just human nature in general, so I can be told over and over what to not do something. But I'm just, I have that personality that when I want to do something, I'm going to do it and I'll have to experience that consequences for myself. So I kind of just look at things from that perspective with my own children. And when it comes to water, not only are they drawn to it, but I think when you're constantly telling them with the pool about their, you know, no, don't go near that. No, don't, you know, and you're constantly telling them no, that's like the first thing that they're going to want to do. You know, it's going to increase that curiosity to go to that pool and find out why his mom or dad or whoever telling me to stay away from the pool. So once she started getting to be mobile, I was looking at things from that perspective and it wasn't worth the risk to me. So to think that my layers of protection, if you will, cause there was, there was a back door and then there that went into a closed porch, which had, you had to go through another door to get to the pool. I didn't want to rely on all that because anything can happen.

Rick: Yeah. If you tell them no, it does. It creates it. It increases their, you know, awareness of what it is, what it is that they want. We used to, in sales, we used to have what's called pull the carrot back. You pull it, you know, you dangle the carrot out in front of the person. That's kind of the, that's kind of the interest piece. But then all of a sudden once you pull the carrot back, now you're drawing them in closer because you're saying, no, you can't have that. You're actually doing the reverse. You're pulling them in closer. So when you're telling them they can't have the water, can't go in the pool, can't do that, you're really pulling the carrot back because that's what they want. So the more you tell them they can't have something, the more they want something that's, that's kind of a rule of thumb when you're talking sales. I mean, when you're trying to sell a car or starting to sell something, it's, it's, it's an emotional thing. And so I think with the mommy and me, the atmosphere that you just kind of explained, you know, child's coming in, jumping in, mommy's always going to be there to catch me. They've created an atmosphere of something that's really, really fun. And then when you tell your child no you can't, they don't understand. No, I want to go jump in the pool.

Nicole: Yeah.

Rick: Then how long have you been an infant swim instructor?

Nicole: I got certified 10 months ago.

Nicole: So may of 2019.

Rick: Now that you're an infant swim instructor and you started in Arizona and there was not anybody really around doing what you're doing. How busy are you?

Nicole: Last year was my - I'm going into my second year right now. Last year I was actually very happy with the turnout considering I'm new to the area and I didn't know anybody. I was able to teach 32 kids last year from June until October, so in a four month period. So I, you know, I wouldn't say that it's enough to, you know, retire my husband off over anything. But I think it was a great start. And the word of mouth. I did most of my advertising on Facebook and you know just parents sharing with other parents. You know, I definitely anticipate this year being much busier. I have to kind of restricts some of my hours because I do still have a two and four year old. So I have to, you know, still have that balance of making my, my marriage and my family priority. Cause honestly if it wasn't for them I would, I would work, you know, all day, every day to try to teach as many kids as possible.

Rick: You, you're also working. If I remember correctly, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you're, you're also working with some families that have experienced like a non-fatal drowning. Is that correct? Now let's go back to the traditional swim school of where these people that that was that their only information they had was saying a traditional swim school. Were they involved in something like that before or were they not and then they learned about you and after they had this experience? I mean what have you learned about the situations?

Nicole: Yeah, really sure. Cause he was it was a month before, a month and a half ish before his third birthday. So I'm really not sure if, if the mom actually even had him in swim lessons or not, but I do know that he had older sisters and they would go in the pool together. So I don't know if he was actually in swim lessons, but I do know that he was wearing floaties before as a way of, of swimming. It was after the nonfatal accident. That's when she started doing the moms started doing her research. I don't know exactly what she was searching, but she started searching and then that's when she came across my videos cause I had just started in June, his non-fatal drowning June 3rd actually. And his non-fatal drowning accident was June 11th. And so it was right after that. So it was almost a month after I'd started lessons. And obviously it, it, it took me about two weeks until the [inaudible] I could actually like posts videos of kids that were actually swimming cause it, it took a little bit of time to find something that was good enough to put out there. Right. Because the first couple of weeks is the learning process, but then she saw the videos and she just, she said she just kept watching all the different videos and was just like, I need this. This is what, what I needs to get into.

Rick: Right. Well you know, what's you're explaining that parents go through if they, if they're not aware of infant survival or swim, you know, that type of swim lessons and they have not had either a non-fatal or a fatal drowning and not aware of that. I think what a lot of people start searching, what they find is they find out how big this problem really is. That they, you know, there's so many things that they were not aware of and then obviously probably found, you know, your videos, your social media, your, you know, campaigns that you're putting out there about, you know, awareness just, you know, water safety, drowning prevention, information, education. And then that probably prompted her to start searching more. It's a very, very common that parents and families, they start, they do the research after an event. Like this happens instead of doing the research before they don't know.

Rick: I mean, I guess if you don't know something, you don't, they don't realize there's this huge, huge community out here. And in some cases that's communities that you don't want to be part of. Like, you know, I'm part of a, my daughter suffered a fatal drowning. And then we have the non-fatal drowning families that have children that are in just, you know, horrendous condition. Some are getting better, some are permanent, whatever the case is, but they live with us every day. And so many of these families tell the same thing. I didn't know, I didn't know until this happened. So from the standpoint of say traditional swim lessons, what's the primary age? When you think swim lessons? I'm thinking, you know, kids are learning how to stroke and swim from side to side, but when you're talking with what you're doing it's really not there. They're not learning to actually strokes or you know, kind of like become the Michael Phelps of the six month old babies, you know? Right. Kind of explained the difference of where you're at with the children that you're working with and in this case most traditional swim schools, unless they have an instructor like you on staff, they can't offer what you do, specialized training and be certified and everything to work with infants. There's a lot more that goes into this. And then just instead of just say going down to the local YMCA and learning how to swim.

Nicole: Yeah, I and you know I'm actually really glad that you brought up the special training and I am specialized in what I'm doing. It's not, you know, just going to, I'll just say the red cross cause that's commonly known and you take a weekend class or something. I had to go to six weeks of training and spend eight hours a day in the pool. I had to do studies on the psychology, behavioral and physiology of young children and what they're doing. So to answer your question with what I'm doing I am specialized in this and as soon as a child is old enough to roll over on land, they're old enough to be able to be taught to roll over in the water. They don't have to be talking, you know, it's, it's all I'm showing them what to do in the water and it's a muscle memory that I'm creating for them to know what to do when they do fall in the water of how to roll over on their back.

Nicole: And I'm the only instructor, so they're going to have me from day one until the very end. I've heard from other moms that have, you know, initially took their child to a traditional swim school and they with one instructor for like two months and it took two months, let's say to get the child to even hold their breath under water because the rest of the time they were just kind of maybe practice kicking on the wall. Then after that two months, Oh now a new instructor came in and now they're basically starting all over because there was no communication between the first instructor and then the new instructor that came in, they don't know where the other one left off. So now they're starting all over.

Nicole: And the parents, the one particular mom that I spoke with, she was just frustrated because she, she sent her young, her two year old son to me and her four year old daughter was the one that went to the traditional swim school and she was saying that her two year old was a better swimmer. Then after six weeks, then her four year old daughter who had been going to swim lessons for three months. I think at that time it was three months. So that's the difference. And what I'm teaching is, is first the survival, being able to roll over on the back to breathe once they're able to walk or run. If they're for couple months, I would say about eight weeks of walking even running, then we can teach them to, they have the coordination at that point to be able to know how to kick so that they can flip over to swim and and get to wherever they need to go in the pool.

Rick: I mean, when you talk to traditional swimming lessons, you're saying three months maybe for this one child, but I've heard as many, there's, there's families that started with a mommy and me class at two years of age and the child is four years old and still can't put their face in the water.

Nicole: Oh yeah. Two months for a breadth, for just putting their face in the water is what I say. So not two months for swimming. I actually, last year I taught a two year old boy. That's a perfect example because his mom got was in mommy and me at four months old with him until he came to me at two and a half. She was kind of on and off during those years. So it wasn't, it wasn't the entire time, but it was kind of on and off. He came to me and he was doing everything. He was swimming across my pool within on his seventh lesson. Each lesson is 10 minutes. Yes. So that's 70 minutes. So that's a little over an hour spent in the water with him. And he was swimming across the pool. So the mommy and me class was helping. It was good, you know, cause he, he was definitely, he already had that breath control because mom had been working with them. He was comfortable in the water. He just hadn't been shown how to actually swim at that point. Right. So it was just a matter of seven lessons for him and he got it just like that.

Rick: Would you say if somebody in a mommy and me class, and then let's say they just are just started this, you know, winter or spring and they're looking at maybe getting involved with them, having that little bit of experience in that and the child in the water, does that lessen the fear with the child? I mean, do they I'm, I'm sure it probably depends on the child really. But because every child is going to be different. But if somebody is in a mommy me class right now and they're listening to this podcast and then they go out and find it, infants swim instructor like yourself or come to your would you say that probably the child may not, they'll be a little more comfortable in the water in the beginning or is there a difference? I'm sure it's probably depends on the child. Every child is probably going to be different.

Nicole: Yeah, of course. Every child is different. I actually don't know that there really would be a difference because I still think that they're, they're going to have that apprehension. I, I don't want to say that they're fearful of the water. They're unfamiliar with the water. They don't understand what's going on. Number one, I'm a stranger. They don't know who I am and now mom or dad or whoever's handing them over to me. And so then there's that. And then the next thing is the first day we're working on birth control. The first day we're putting our face in the water. I'm not giving them an option to say, okay, do you want to put your face in the water today? Cause if I asked every child that they would all say no, no, and then we wouldn't learn anything. So so then of course they get upset because now their faces in the water and you know, we're working on that birth control.

Nicole: It might be helpful I think if you're doing it for a longer period of time and, because that's the hardest part I think for, for a lot of kids is just putting their face in the water. With my daughter. She was kind of easy going anyways, so it's hard to really compare her to, you know, how other kids would respond. She did cry. I mean she cried for probably the first three weeks. And let me tell you what, she got mad at times. I mean she would, she got the maddest when he was teaching her to float. She did not like that at all. And I remember her just like kinda reaching over and like trying to hit him in the face to be like, knock it off, you know? But for me as a mom watching that, yes, she was crying and she was mad and she didn't want to do it.

Nicole: But as a mom watching that, I knew what the end result was going to be and I knew in the end she was going to know what to do in the event of an aquatic accident. That to me was more important than her being mad in that moment. Right. That's kind of part of parenting. You know, there's things that are out there that we want to protect, protect our children from and we got, we have to do what we have to do. We can't always be their best friend and give, if we gave them the option of what they wanted to do, they would just probably eat candy all day and watch TV if we had to be their best friend and never tell them no to anything. Right. I know that kinda got a little off track. I would say the mommy and me classes will help with the water familiarization in regards to if it's going to help them not be as upset in the water during lessons, probably not. Because if it's so unfamiliar and I'm a stranger.

Rick: Right. And there's a big difference between the mommy and me classes I think because probably what the, what you're saying it at least what the objective with the classes. You know, you brought up an interesting point though here. When you are talking about the mommy me classes and the swim instructors and you being in the water versus say working with you, what was the ratio in the mommy me class and say traditional may be going into tourist traditional swims schools. Were you the only mommy and baby in there with the instructor or are there usually multiple people?

Nicole: Oh no, there's multiple people. The class that I was in, I think there was about eight to 10 of us in there with our kids.

Rick: And how long was it? How long was a mommy me class or lesson?

Nicole: So I was in Germany at the time. It's, I think it's different here in the States, but at the time it was an eight week increments. So we would go for, and I did two sessions.

Rick: When you were in the pool, how long were you in the pool with the instructor? With the other people?

Nicole: Yeah, it was a, it was a 30 minute class.

Rick: So a 30 minute class on individual instruction with the instructor. How much time was the instructor actually spending with you and your baby

Nicole: One-On-One? Maybe two minutes if that.

Rick: So, so you're paying for a 30 minute class and getting two minutes worth of instruction. Yeah, really. And everything else is kind of like sit there. Let's put, let's flash, let's make bubbles and let's play. And so it's really, you know, 28 minutes of play time, two minutes of instruction. Now let's cross over and let's look at the difference between a class with you. It's just you and the baby, correct?

Nicole: Yes.

Rick: So it's one-on-one. And how much time do is one, how long does your lesson with that baby or the child last in the pool with you?

Nicole: So for kids that are foreign under well actually, so you three and under, once they're four it's longer. So the younger kids, it's 10 minutes that they're in the water. And I know that that was, I remember when I first initially talked to Jeffrey, he said the price is this and the lessons are 10 minutes, four days a week, Monday through Thursday. And I Said I was like, wait a minute, 10 minutes. What, what are you going to learn in 10 minutes? All that we are familiar with is the traditional way, which is half an hour to 45 minutes in the water. And you know, that's, that's where the production is, is the time in the water. But with me, it's 10 minutes. I'm working the entire time, the child, we'll be tired after the 10 minutes like they're done. And there's some kids that, that they're done at say it's seven or eight minutes, they're just done and we have to call it. It was a good productive lesson that day because the thing is, and the reason why the lessons are so short is because they get tired. And once that fatigue sense and then the learning process is over. So we could still sit in there for another 20 minutes and they can be upset, but they're not going to be learning anything because they're tired.

Rick: So they may have eight to 10 minutes in the water with you. But that's pretty intensive instruction during that period of time versus say two minutes of an instructor kind of showing you something in the water. And then leaving it up to the mommy to really teach the child to do something well of, which probably is a big difference why somebody spends four to six weeks with you and they're able to have a skill that could save their life. It's been four to six weeks in a money meet class. Mm. Maybe, you know, not be able to put their face in the water yet. When we look at something, say traditional and with, while you do that is a big, I mean that's a huge difference I would say between, you know, if somebody on the fence of saying, okay, do I do this or do I do this?

Rick: Forget the money or forget. I mean I know there's people that say it's traumatizing to the child. Let me, if you're listening to this thing and I don't want to hear my baby cry, babies cry for all kinds of reasons. And they cry because that's the only way that they have to communicate what they want. You know, if they could say some four choice, four letter words, they would say that, but they can't. So they just, they just scream and cry and kick and do what they know to do. Just like they cry and scream and carry on when they're hungry. And then I think as a mother you begin to learn what the different cries. You know, they, they kind of are a little different. But let me say as a father and as a parent who lost a three year old daughter too, an event eight feet in front of a lifeguard, that I would much rather listen to my daughter cry for five, eight minutes for maybe a w you know, the first half dozen or dozen lessons, if it would even last that long, then have to go to her funeral.

Rick: Absolutely. Yeah. There's a trade off there. You know, what are, you know, what's the price that you want to pay? And as far as the money is concerned, I always tell people, you know, I have a story where I bought a Kirby vacuum cleaner, didn't want one. They showed it to me and said, do you want your baby? And this time I wet my ex wife, she was pregnant and said, you want your baby crawling on this dirt? No. So he walked out with, I financed the Kirby 1700 Kirby vacuum clearance. 35% interest. Just so my daughter wouldn't call on dirt. Here we are talking about teaching your daughter, your son, the ability, a skill that will stay with them the rest of their life.

Nicole: Yes.

Rick: And when you talk survival swimming, it's not strictly for babies. It is for adults. I mean you get in trouble in the water. Every, every instructor teaches rollover on your back and float.

Nicole: Yes.

Rick: That is a position where you can re, cause you can't tread water. All your, you know, for 24 hours a day, if you, if you're out in the Lake and the boat sinks, you could tread water for awhile, swim for a while, but you've got to find that time to rest, get your breath. And so they teach roll over on your back and float. So you're teaching them a life skill. Something that will be with them all their life versus buying a Kirby vacuum cleaner that just keeps my daughter off dirt. Bye. The end of the day, she's going to be playing in a mud puddle anyway.

Nicole: Well, and you know, you're talking about the price and we work with the Colt Catalina foundation who offers scholarships, to pay for half of lessons. You know, for families that are in need. If there is a need, there's an option to get help. I actually just recently found out here in Arizona, there's an organization called friends of foster care who will pay a portion of swim lessons for, for foster kids, which I think is absolutely amazing because these foster parents, they're not making a ton of money by being foster parents. They're having to, they're wanting to give these kids a quality life. And I think that this friends of foster care organization is doing an awesome thing because they're helping these foster parents pay for, you know, other, yeah. Sports and things that the kids can do. Recreational stuff where field trips, and this is what she told me though, which was so impressive to me. She said, swimming is the only activity that we will pay in conjunction with something else. So if somebody wanted to have the child do dancing and softball, they won't pay for those in conjunction with each other, but they will pay for swimming and dancing because they realize the importance of learning to swim and that it is a life saving thing. So for anybody else that's listening, if you are a foster parent and you're in Arizona, reach out to friends of foster care because they're an awesome organization that will pay a portion of

Rick: The swim lessons. And I myself, I'm a foster parent and I have two foster children right now. They're both six years old and I was sharing in our Facebook yesterday that matter of fact whereas air it is right here, I have a birthday invitation to a swimming party for a kindergartener. And I know those of you that are listening to the podcast can't see this, but Nicole and I are also shooting. This was on video, but I'll show it Nicole. Then as you can see, it says bring swimsuit. She doesn't know how to swim. This is very upsetting to me. You know, for multiple reasons because even though this child is holding the party could be very well skilled and maybe he's been through, you know, all the classes and you know, learned to float at six months and the odds are the majority of these kids in kindergarten don't have those skills.

Rick: Probably less, I would say maybe five to 10% even know how to swim. The rest probably don't. So yeah, that's why it's important to do because you know, you may think I don't have a pool. I don't have, you know, these things. I have no need to teach my child this skill. But where you live at, just about everybody has a pool. So even if you don't have a pool, your child might be invited to a birthday party. They might be invited for a sleepover at a friend's house when they're, you know, maybe first, second, third grade and your child doesn't have these skills. Then your child is at risk and because drowning is the leading cause of unintentional death to children between the ages of one five and between five to 15 years of age, it's the second leading cause. So, so people just don't know, they don't understand those things. And you teach a very valuable skill. As we wrap up here, Nicole, what is the one thing that you could tell a parent if they were on the fence, but say say between a traditional swim lesson and getting started with you and infant survival that would maybe they could implement today. And I'm sure you have a long list of things you could say, but what do you feel would be a really important thing?

Nicole: I would say to them, I think you said it perfectly and being a parent, I can say this, but I haven't had anybody that I know actually drowned. But I would say for me as a parent, I would rather listen to my child cry for a total of four hours cause that's really all it takes for me to teach them to swim over the course of six weeks. It's four hours. I would rather listen to them cry. And really what it is is complaining because they don't want to do it. Then find my child in the bottom of a pool and have to go to their funeral.

Rick: Right?

Nicole: I spent my entire pregnancy worrying about everything you know about miscarrying and you know that everything was going to be okay in the end. And I was thinking as soon as my daughter was born that I could stop worrying. Unfortunately. now there's the dangers of the water and there's the dangerous of, you know, pedophiles and you know, all these other things out there and I can't protect her from everything I get that. But the things that are in my control that I can protect her and teacher to survive and live. Like, for example, I've even recently taught her our address, you know, so if she ever gets lost and somebody asks, where do you live? She at least knows our address. You know, things like that. That's what I would tell a parent and [inaudible] a child is not always going to agree with, you know what it is that you're trying to teach them because they don't understand. But you as a parent, you as a mature adult, you know the end result and what you're doing for your child. So don't let them dictate something that you know is the right thing to do.

Rick: If somebody has questions or they want to learn more about you and what you do and the infant survival, you have your own social media, correct? Yes. Now where are, where can people find you on social media?

Nicole: I'm on both Facebook and Instagram at Aqua baby survival swim school. Okay. And I have a website. It's water safe, baby.com.

Rick: Okay. And we'll also make sure that there's links to all these in our show notes so people will be able to click on that and go straight there. And well Nicole, I'll tell ya, you are doing great work and you are teaching these children. You're very passionate. I can hear it in your voice. Because it's personal to you. And even though you haven't experienced it, you're coming from a place that you know that you could provide a skill to your daughter, your children and other children and the ones that, and the families you're helping two potentially protect against what I refer to as the unthinkable because people don't believe it can happen to them. And so it's an unthinkable. We don't think of it until you know somebody that goes through something like this. You don't think about some lessons, you don't think about. You're, you're involved in everything else about the baby and the child, you know, buying the first baby dress. I, you were talking about something in the beginning and we'll, we'll wrap up here. But as a father, I remember when my daughter was first born, I mean, she wasn't even out of the hospital and yet I was immediately thinking about her going to the prom and wanting to, not the boy out.

Rick: And you know, and so it's like, you know, immediately, you know, here I am projecting way in the future of wanting to protect my daughter from everything. And then, you know, before she's even born, I'm wanting to protect her from dirt. And then when she's born now at all, immediately went from, okay, I've got the dirt covered. But that guy that's going to come on and take her to the prom. Yeah, he's got to meet me and my test. And that's kind of the way thinking. And so you're giving them the skills of life and you're giving them the skills to be able to self rescue. And just one last note, you teach them not only in a bathing suit, but you also teach them fully clothed to right?

Nicole: Yes, correct. Once they're, once they're fully skilled, the final test for them to be able to quote unquote graduate or received their certificate of completion is we will do, I have them fully clothed and if they're wearing diapers, they put their diapers, tennis shoes, everything. We'll do one day with summer clothes. And then the next day will be with winter clothes. When I was in training, we family that lived by a Lake. So they actually brought their child in a full snow suit, like the snow suit, jacket, boots, everything because they wanted to, you know, make sure that, but the child would know what to do and how that feels, because once they hit the water and the clothing and the diaper all fill up with water, that adds an extra 10 to 15 pounds to the child making it that much more difficult. So it's very important to make sure that they know how that, how that feels.

Rick: But if you watch these videos of these babies floating in water, it's almost looks effortlessly.

Nicole: Yeah, it really does.

Rick: I mean, you know, I myself would have a hard time just in a pair of pants, so, you know, winter, winter clothing and everything else. So Nicole, we really appreciate your time today. I know you're busy. You've got lessons coming up here, so I know you've got to jump back in the pool. So well again, we thank you for your time here today.

Nicole: All right. Thank you for having me.

Rick: You're welcome.

Need help or assistance with the cost of Infant Swim Lessons Contact Nicole or Colt Catalina Foundation

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