Episode 25: Su-lin Ngiam-Agents of Hope

CSCW EP 25: Su-Lin Ngiam - Agents of Hope
Threshold Questions & Delicious Quotes

What does the ArtsWok Collaborative do?

I like to say that we're agents of hope. That we're really here to inject hope in society, or at least we try to, and it's about the bridging difference be it between people or ideas or uncomfortable topics.

How do your very public arts practices advance your issue-based community work?

…we want it to be out there where people can see, they can hear --- really bringing a taboo issue out into the open, making what's invisible, visible, unheard, heard. And the arts are great for doing that and creating spaces that can do that

What is Go-Li?

It's (Drama Box’s) inflatable theater … we have used that structure in our projects as well, … It's tour-able, so you can bring it to different communities, and you pop up and cause you're not allowed to be there permanently, then you deflate the structure, and you move on. And it becomes some kind of an icon as well.

People recognize it, and “Oh, okay, these guys are here. The artists are here.” And it's about creating safe space as well because it's open, but it's covered, but yet you can walk in and out so you can have conversations about difficult things or people can be vulnerable.

What is Both Sides Now?

...we have presented this project for seven years. …essentially, we're out there engaging community saying, "Have you thought about death?" …it's an important part of living to think about that. In fact, it's very much two sides of the same coin. …how we live our lives will determine how we end. So, it's really all quite related, but of course, it can be quite taboo, and it's a painful topic. Loss, in general, is hard to talk about, but I think that's something we really need to talk about more as societies.

 

What role does negotiation play in the cultural life of Singapore?

We are artists. We are here to question and provoke. And having said that, we have things like censorship in Singapore in terms of, so, all our scripts, plays, have to be submitted for a license. … there is a process of negotiation that, as artists, we then undergo with the state or with authorities, and it's that process of dialogue. And whether or not we choose to, to then, adapt our place or our work or choose another creative way to talk about it or present it. That's up to the artists, But I think what is meaningful is that process of negotiation and how we negotiate, and that impacts the way we practice, and it makes us more creative in a way. Then it is about finding the vocabularies and being patient. That change takes time.

 

Transcript

Bill Cleveland: New Year's 2014 in Singapore, the year of the Horse

What is Singapore, a city-state, a very small, very well-off multi-ethnic country, an unlikely nexus of community arts innovation? For those, like me, who know the place from some personal experience and some very fine Singaporean friends, it's all of those with a promise of much, much more. And that promise, for me, has been personified by one of those friends I mentioned. 

I met Su-Lin Ngiam at an international community arts conference In the Spring of 2010 hosted by the

CSCW EP 25: Su-Lin Ngiam - Agents of Hope
Threshold Questions & Delicious Quotes

What does the ArtsWok Collaborative do?

I like to say that we're agents of hope. That we're really here to inject hope in society, or at least we try to, and it's about the bridging difference be it between people or ideas or uncomfortable topics.

How do your very public arts practices advance your issue-based community work?

…we want it to be out there where people can see, they can hear --- really bringing a taboo issue out into the open, making what's invisible, visible, unheard, heard. And the arts are great for doing that and creating spaces that can do that

What is Go-Li?

It's (Drama Box’s) inflatable theater … we have used that structure in our projects as well, … It's tour-able, so you can bring it to different communities, and you pop up and cause you're not allowed to be there permanently, then you deflate the structure, and you move on. And it becomes some kind of an icon as well.

People recognize it, and “Oh, okay, these guys are here. The artists are here.” And it's about creating safe space as well because it's open, but it's covered, but yet you can walk in and out so you can have conversations about difficult things or people can be vulnerable.

What is Both Sides Now?

...we have presented this project for seven years. …essentially, we're out there engaging community saying, "Have you thought about death?" …it's an important part of living to think about that. In fact, it's very much two sides of the same coin. …how we live our lives will determine how we end. So, it's really all quite related, but of course, it can be quite taboo, and it's a painful topic. Loss, in general, is hard to talk about, but I think that's something we really need to talk about more as societies.

 

What role does negotiation play in the cultural life of Singapore?

We are artists. We are here to question and provoke. And having said that, we have things like censorship in Singapore in terms of, so, all our scripts, plays, have to be submitted for a license. … there is a process of negotiation that, as artists, we then undergo with the state or with authorities, and it's that process of dialogue. And whether or not we choose to, to then, adapt our place or our work or choose another creative way to talk about it or present it. That's up to the artists, But I think what is meaningful is that process of negotiation and how we negotiate, and that impacts the way we practice, and it makes us more creative in a way. Then it is about finding the vocabularies and being patient. That change takes time.

 

Transcript

Bill Cleveland: New Year's 2014 in Singapore, the year of the Horse

What is Singapore, a city-state, a very small, very well-off multi-ethnic country, an unlikely nexus of community arts innovation? For those, like me, who know the place from some personal experience and some very fine Singaporean friends, it's all of those with a promise of much, much more. And that promise, for me, has been personified by one of those friends I mentioned. 

I met Su-Lin Ngiam at an international community arts conference In the Spring of 2010 hosted by the St. Louis Regional Arts Commission. She was there with her long-time collaborator Ko Siew Huey. In that encounter, I came to know one of the most striking characteristics of Singapore's notable capacity to punch far above its weight. Which simply translates as "learning is sacrosanct" and "knowledge is power."

The country's dramatic rise from a post-WWII, post-colonial basket case to global economic power is certainly a success story fueled by incredible discipline and a belief that Singapore's greatest asset is its people. But, the Lion City, as it is sometimes called it, does have a sketchy side. Like the US, Singapore is classified as a "flawed democracy" in the Economist Magazine's well-respected Democracy Index. One aspect of this means that Singapore keeps a pretty tight hand on internal criticism.  

Nevertheless, over the past decade and a half, it has spawned a robust community of artists who are very committed to nurturing the incredibly wide range of Singapore's stories.

Su-Lin heads an arts-based community development organization called ArtsWok, whose work she describes as being "agents of hope." That agency has made an indelible mark on the Singapore community in dozens of neighborhoods and venues. She shared the ArtsWok story with me in the Spring of 2021, just as the Covid cobwebs were beginning to melt.  

This is Change the Story / Change the World: A Chronicle of art and community transformation. My name is Bill Cleveland.

Part 1: Making Space in the Wok 

BC: [00:00:00] Okay. Hello, this morning.

Su-Lin Ngiam: [00:00:02] I think it's way too early for you. Isn't it?

BC: [00:00:04] Actually, I normally wake up at that time. To do my writing,

S-L N: [00:00:08] you have coffee, right?

BC: [00:00:09] I do. Yes, I'm going to be jumping up and down here. Yeah. I'm just gonna dive in with my questions. My understanding is that Singapore has handled the world pandemic catastrophe better than most. Is that a true thing?

S-L N: [00:00:25] I guess if you're looking at it, in terms of numbers, then yeah. We have a fairly low infection rate and very few deaths compared to many countries. So in that sense, yes. But we did have a situation with the migrant workers and the dormitories here. About 105,000 were infected because of the kind of living arrangements, the virus spread really fast.

So that was our crisis. It was contained to a particular kind of population or demographic. But it also surfaced a lot of issues with regards to how we how we treat our migrant workers, their living conditions, and so on and so forth.

So yeah.

BC: [00:01:03] so I remember when I was there, that was one of the just beneath the surface issues that was there. And as has happened all over the world, the stress test of the pandemic has surfaced. The cracks in society, the places that aren't, aren't working as well as they should. My first question is really one of self-definition. You've been at this work for the past seven years. Very intensely. So when you're sitting across the table from people who are new to Arts Wok, how do you describe your work in the world?

S-L N: [00:01:42] So we would generally say that we're intermediaries. So that's the word that we use. We work in the field of art space, community development, so I'm ABCD as you know it. And essentially, we're here to bridge people, ideas, resources; a lot of the work is about facilitation and bridge-building.

And Apart from that, we also do creative producing work. So, we actually design projects and programs with communities, with stakeholders. We implement them with artists, and then we look at evaluating them. In a nutshell, that's what we do, but it doesn't sound very Romantic, or it's not.

So I guess it really depends on who I'm meeting. But I like to say that we're agents of hope that we're really here to inject hope in society, or at least we try to, and it's about. The bridging difference be it between people or ideas or uncomfortable topics.

And essentially, I think without hope, we can't survive; we can't progress. We can't, actualize and I think we, we need a lot of that right now in our world. And it's hard work. It's difficult work. So, self-care becomes crucial as well, so yeah, I guess if you look at the work itself, we're intermediaries, we're producers, we're doing this because we want to create a more hopeful society,

BC: [00:03:01] So you work with a broad range of constituencies. Could you describe your community?

S-L N: [00:03:07] primarily, we work with a lot of artists and creatives designers. They are the core of our practice, and who we engage with the most then, of course, depends on what kinds of work we're doing. So, if it's with a direct geographical base community, for example, then we work with a residential community.

We also work with issue-based stuff. So, like a project, we do call it both sites. Now we look at end-of-life and seeding the importance of having end-of-life conversations and planning. So, then the community is much larger it's anyone in Singapore. But of course, then you have the health care system.

You have the social services; you have policymakers and funders. So, it really cuts across the entire ecosystem. It really depends on what the program or the project is about where our interests are

BC: [00:03:58] so one of the things, a sort of a picture that I have that people who are not familiar with Singapore It might find enlightening is when you talk about geography, which is quite small. And actually, it goes vertical because so many people live in what we would call public housing, but which is basically all, almost all housing in Singapore. The people of Singapore basically live in high rise apartments

S-L N: [00:04:25] Yup.

BC: [00:04:26] That's a different landscape.

S-L N: [00:04:27] And sometimes that makes it harder to do work in the communities only because when it's high rise and is vertical, then in terms of, how you can use space or how you can design those sorts of interactions kind of changes because we don't have a lot of public space, even within a residential community, we have parks and all of that, but it's quite dense.

And so sometimes it's hard for us to find suitable spaces, to do our public engagements because we genuinely do installations. And this is a certain scale to what we do because we want to evoke curiosity. And when you want to invite larger groups of people, you need space. And sometimes that becomes a challenge.

But I guess it's about thinking creatively then about how to engage vertical communities versus, horizontally and everyone can see each other. And so, it's just a different approach to the work. Yeah.

BC: [00:05:15] It brings to mind. And I'm wondering when I was there. There was a project that had produced a pop-up arts venue. It was a blow-up venue. Is that still there? Is that still being in use?

S-L N: [00:05:28] Do you remember what it was called? Was it called Go-Li?

BC: [00:05:31] Yes, I think so.

S-L N: [00:05:32] Yeah. Yeah. It's their inflatable theater that they got specially made by. I'm designing this in the UK. It was the collaboration. It's still around. It's currently deflated because they're not really supposed to be doing large-scale public engagements at this point in time.

But yeah, Drama Box are close collaborators. In fact, we present the end-of-life project, Both Sides Now, together, and this has been for seven years. And we have used that structure in our projects as well, but. They use it for other work that they do. That's an excellent idea, yeah. Cause limited space. It's tour-able, so you can bring it to different communities, and you pop up and cause you're not allowed to be there permanently, then you deflate the structure, and you move on. And it becomes some kind of an icon as well.

People recognize it, and Oh, okay. These guys are here. The artists are here, and it's about creating safe space as well because it's open, but it's covered, but yet you can walk in and out so you can have conversations about difficult things or people can be vulnerable.

So that's really nice. Yeah.

BC: [00:06:28] So, just a statistic, how many people can fit into that and to Go-Li

S-L N: [00:06:34] That's a good question. They have three; I think the smallest one we fit about 60 to 80 and then the largest one I think goes up to about 150 200.

BC: [00:06:44] Yeah. It's an extraordinary thing. You're probably used to it, but I think there are probably many artists listening, mouth thinking. Ah, So I'll make sure that all your contact information will be. Available at the end of this podcast so that we can put people in touch with you who are interested in more information.

As you said, seven years before that, you were doing interesting things as well. What is the path of your journey from an inquisitive, creative person to doing what you're doing now? --- in essence, running, at least, what I see as the preeminent arts-based community development organization in Singapore, right?

S-L N: [00:07:24] Thanks, Bill. I'll accept that. Yeah, the journey. I come from a family where my parents are educators and social workers. So that, that's like the family I was born into, and that's really influenced my beliefs, my value system and just seeing what it means to have a higher purpose, with one's life and giving back to one's community, and realizing that one has the agency to make a difference, no matter how small. But even more powerful with others. So, that's really influenced me.

I have to say also, growing up; I've been part of uniform groups. So, I think you guys have that in the US, the (Girl) Guides and the Boy Scouts. Yep. Yep. So, I've always been part of some kind of community. So, I was in the Brownies as a kid, then I've gone to the Gold's Brigade. And that, so, this idea about again, being part of a community where you learn and grow together and you do life, but you also give back, and like your life is a service, right? So that's influenced me.

I guess a big turning point also was, realizing my sexual orientation as a gay person, and I'm in Singapore, that's still criminalized. So, in, in terms of our penal code, sex between two men is still a crime. Nothing mentioned about two women, but nevertheless, it's still largely frowned upon. And we have strong religious groups here, conservative, who don't support that. So even though there's the law, but the government, our courts say that they won't prosecute, but nevertheless, the law being there already says a lot, and it does play on people's minds, and basically you're seen as illegal in that sense, even though you're not prosecuted.

And so, my family is Christian, and I was I'm a Christian myself. And I think a big part of my journey was reconciling that right. Being gay and being Christian. And what does that mean? Why I have to hide a part of myself. So that's really influenced this idea about the importance of bridging difference of being able to Really encounter someone else and be open and nonjudgmental, .and to listen deeply.

And how do we celebrate that diversity, not just tolerate it? And then, how do we work together? How do we collaborate, and how do we sit with that tension, or the discomfort, but yet seek something higher, or transcend ourselves, so to speak? But anyway, that, that path led me to do theological studies, and counseling, and all of that.

So, after graduation, I worked in the arts for about six to eight years doing company management and arts management. But then, I went on to do theological studies and counseling. And, that part of my life for three years was very much about reconciling my faith, my sexual orientation, who I am, and how do I be coherent? And how can that, then, help me serve?  I guess when there's more coherence, you can do better work. You're not afraid; you're doing something about your fear. So, then I worked in the only LGBTQ church in Singapore for another about two to almost three years after I graduated from theological college. And that was really rewarding. But then, I found that limiting because when you do work from your position on religion, sometimes more doors close than open. And I think, also being an LGBTQ church in a kind of society like Singapore, it's hard as well.

People don't really give you the time of day, or they don't take you as seriously. And I always wanted it to work. And the LGBTQ community is very important to me. I also want to look at a whole range of issues and communities.

And if saying, I'm the pastor of the Free Community Church. It is going to close more doors than open them. Then that's not really the position from which I'm going to work. So, I moved on, and that's when I started ArtsWok. And this was with Huie, who you've met as well, Bill. So, she's currently on our board, but when we started ArtsWok, we were both running the organization.

And we've grown over the years from two. We are now a team of five, and you have interns and trainings for about eight of us at this point in time. But yeah, thanks for listening to my story. All those experiences have shaped me and motivate me.

And so, ArtsWok really is, my vision of combining my passions, my disciplines, my sense of purpose to the arts and culture, and community development, and spirituality. And that has given birth to Artswok. And it's an ongoing journey in terms of what that work actually can look like and its impact in society.

BC: [00:11:50] One of the images I got when you were describing this was the journey, as you say, to feel safe and free in a place where there's not necessarily a direct path. And I was thinking about, literally Go-Li or some other stage where you have a place that is a safe space for making sense and meaning of a world that is complicated and, in some cases, restrictive, but it gives you a new way to have your voice be present in the world. Does that make sense?

S-L N: [00:12:28] A lot of sense. And that's why it's ArtsWok as well, okay. Like the Chinese cooking walk because the wok is that. Safe space, that container, it's that circle, it's a safe circle. And it is about than bringing different people or ideas or resources, and we're creating something in that wok something hopefully delicious and nutritious and yummy.

BC: [00:12:51] Yeah, I could definitely say my culinary adventures in Singapore were some of my best

S-L N: [00:12:57] You love