10 - Reconciliation: With Self, Vietnam, and Former Enemies

SUMMARY: What does it mean to reconcile with yourself, with the country in which you fought, with your former enemies, and with your Creator? TEASER — Bob Peragallo: Reconciliation is when two people resolve their differences and they actually begin to work together. INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: The word “reconciliation” seems antiquated in this […]

SUMMARY: What does it mean to reconcile with yourself, with the country in which you fought, with your former enemies, and with your Creator?

TEASER — Bob Peragallo: Reconciliation is when two people resolve their differences and they actually begin to work together.

INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: The word “reconciliation” seems antiquated in this present age of divisiveness and polarization. It’s a word that has fallen from the common man’s lexicon into the pile of unused, unneeded, unspoken linguistic terms and expressions.  In a world where friendships come and go, but where enemies can last a lifetime, it shouldn’t be surprising that “reconciliation” is seldom heard or spoken. After all, people might feel obligated to make and keep room in our vocabularies for such valuable phrases as “go to hell”, “F-you”, and “If I see you again before I die, it will be too soon.” But fortunately, that’s not the case for the Vietnam veterans we’ve been following in this series.

Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. In the podcast we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… and today we’ll hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, which, of course, is the result of a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.

But before we jump into today’s episode, allow me tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the online store for Paladin Pictures. It’s the place to go to purchase any of Paladin’s films including the documentary By War & By God, so please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five bucks on the By War & By God DVD. And don’t forget that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to the non-profit Vets With A Mission, the group that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam for healing and what’s that word? Oh yeah, reconciliation.

In today’s episode we’ll see what reconciliation looks like. What does it mean to reconcile with yourself, with the country in which you fought, with your former enemies, and ultimately with your Creator? Alright, here we go…

Bill Steele: One of the most interesting things I experienced, there was a – there was a man on the team that I was on, who was a Vietnam Veteran, but had never really experienced closure.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bill Steele…

Bill Steele: He had been involved in a battle on the Mekong Delta, where a number of the people in his outfit had been killed. And Bill was still struggling with that, and while we were over there, he got a chance to go up the Mekong Delta, and actually went to the spot where this ambush had taken place. And after he returned from the Mekong Delta, he called his wife and they had a conversation on the phone, and she said, “You have just given me the 4 sweetest words I have ever heard from you.” And he said, “I just said 3 words. I said, ‘I love you.’” She said, “No, you said something else. You said, ‘my war is over.'” And that was, that was really something significant to me to hear this man say that – that was closure for him. And so, he was able to make that reconciliation with his past, and I think that was significant. 

DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: In the 1800’s, an Americas great poets wrote a few lines called Reconciliation. Perhaps we can learn something from his perspective…

POEM: Reconciliation by Walt Whitman

WORD over all, beautiful as the sky!

Beautiful that war, and all its deeds of carnage, must in time be utterly lost;

That the hands of the sisters Death and Night, incessantly softly wash again, and ever again, this soil’d world:

For my enemy is dead—a man divine as myself is dead;

I look where he lies, white-faced and still, in the coffin—I draw near;

I bend down, and touch lightly with my lips the white face in the coffin.

Kent C. Williamson: What do you think reconciliation means? How would you define that?

Bill Steele: Reconciliation, I think has a couple of different interpretations as far as Vets With A Mission is concerned.

Kent C. Williamson: Again, Bill Steele…

Bill Steele: One obviously is I think that many of the veterans had the opportunity to reconcile with their past and to perhaps undergo a healing experience. And then there is the fact that we were at odds with this country. We were fighting one another, and now we’ve had the opportunity to be reconciled with them. To be able to help them – to help them overcome some of the difficulties that they’re experiencing in their country. 

Bob Peragallo: Reconciliation and forgiveness are not the same thing.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: Jesus himself forgave everybody he ran into, but there’s not one person in the scriptures that ever asked Jesus for forgiveness. He automatically gave it. Reconciliation is more than that, reconciliation is when two people resolve their differences and they actually begin to work together. And our work in Vietnam could not be accomplished unless the government and the soldiers that we fought against allowed us to work together with them. We’ve accomplished some very powerful and dynamic things in Vietnam over the years, and that only came about because people that we met that we built relationships with partnered with us and allowed us to work with them in rebuilding and reestablishing—if it was health care or whatever it was in Vietnam that we were doing, orphanage work. So there was a partnering, and that’s what reconciliation is.

Cal Dunham: Reconciliation to me, as I look at what we’ve done in Vietnam, I have seen 2 or 3 things really that stand out.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…

Cal Dunham: I have seen reconciliation with just the people of Vietnam. Those that we’re serving – when we’re helping them, we’re just looking at each other as people that are helping each other. So I see a reconciliation there. I don’t see an animosity of them toward us or us toward them. I have seen reconciliation with former enemies, where we have sat down at a table for dinner together. VC, NVA sitting on one side of the table, and a bunch of us sitting on the other side of the table. Just, in our way that we can communicate through interpreters or through broken english or whatever – being able to talk to one another.  And I see the realization from both sides of that table. From the – by the end of the evening that we all had a mission, but now quite frankly – we’re just a bunch of old farts sitting there having a beer together and talking about the old days. For me – I have never seen anything, “Oh man I can’t wait to get out of here.” I just sit there and say, “Hey, this is great. This is great, ’cause – hey, we did what we did. And we both were doing it because – for whatever reason, our governments were telling us, ‘this is what we’re gonna do.’ But now, that’s all behind us. Let’s just have a good time.” And then the third part of that reconciliation, I’ve seen – I know, because it happened to me. I was able to reconcile in my own heart and mind some guilt that I had. Such a strong negative attitude toward the Vietnamese themselves – not just soldiers, but everybody. I’ve been able to reconcile that. There’s been a reconciliation in my own heart and mind, my soul, about the people of Vietnam. So that’s what it means to me, those – basically those 3 areas.

Kent C. Williamson: Define reconciliation for me. What does that look like?

BREAK — Kent C. Williamson: But first, Do you know that you can go to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission? Yes, you! Whether or not you’re a Vietnam veteran, whether or not you’re a medical professional, you can experience some of the thrill of serving, of caring for the people in the rural villages of that beautiful country. You can experience reconciliation for yourself. Learn more about the upcoming trips at Vets With A Mission dot org and start making your plans today. Alright, back to the show…

Kent C. Williamson: Define reconciliation for me. What does that look like?

Dave Carlson: Reconciliation to me means – taking people who have diametrically opposed vision or purpose…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Dave Carlson…

Dave Carlson: …but finding those parts of what they are or what they do that can be aligned to work in tandem to go forward. We all know that two opposing forces meet, they don’t go anywhere, they just sit there and grind. But somehow, even people who are diametrically opposed at some point, can find a place where they agree, and where they can become brothers. And can make positive movement. And those two opposing forces go alongside, and move in a positive direction. That to me is one definition of reconciliation – there’s a lot of different ones. But in this case, we have former combatants who would actually sit down with each other and plan out what they could do to both improve the country, and improve the lives of the people who are the children of those that they fought. And that to me is reconciliation.

Kent C. Williamson:  What does reconciliation mean?

Jim Proctor: When I talked to Bill Kimble in the early years, and some of the early board members, it was a two pronged process.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Jim Proctor…

Jim Proctor: They wanted to reconcile to some extent – especially the Vietnam Vets, with their experience over there, with the people. And at the same time, they wanted their people to recognize that there was a further reconciliation. And that’s reconciliation with Jesus Christ. And because Vets With A Mission has worked in a communist country, we sometimes have to downplay or be a little bit more discreet in the reconciliation of Jesus Christ. I think that’s where – just working one on one, or working on a project with someone – establishing a relationship is. I think for some of the Vets that have gone over there, it has certainly helped them to reconnect with the people, to see areas that they may have served in. I am so thankful that I didn’t have to fight a war over there. And it’s interesting when I’ve asked veterans – friends of mine if they want to go back, there’s no middle ground. There is either, “I’ve always wanted to go back, I love the people, I love the food, the country was beautiful.” Or there are people that don’t even want me to finish the question in a sentence. They’d say, “No way do I ever want to go back.” And I’m sure that’s related directly to their experience and what they experienced in the Vietnam War. And I have seen people that have had a certain hesitancy on these trips going back. They don’t know what to expect. And I know that that’s been important for them to go back there and see that, and see where they were at, and experience that again. And that helps them. It helps them with the issues in their life. 

Bob Peragallo: I met a man in the Que Son Valley who – a Mr. Som. And he was the chairman of the People’s committee.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: And we built one of our early clinics in the Que Son Valley. And to do that there’s a lot of meetings that have to be attended, there’s a lot of preliminary handshaking. We have to have a beer together, we meet the People’s committee.

DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: The clinic that Bob Peragallo helped build for Mr. Som’s commune was the one he told us about in last week’s episode. As you recall, the area had a childbirth death rate of 33% and after Vets With A Mission’s clinic opened the death rate during childbirth dropped to just 3%.

Bob Peragallo: And we were having dinner together with the members of the People’s committee and a small group of us from Vets With A Mission. And we shook hands, and Mr. Som had a wooden leg, and I asked him how he lost his leg, if he’d lost it in a war. And he said, “Yes,” that a – he got shot by a machine gun. And so, we sat down and through the interpreters we were having this communication. And I told the interpreter I said, “Would you tell Mr. Som that I was a machine gunner. And the interpreter didn’t want to do it, and it got real quiet and everybody got hushed. And the Vietnamese around us through the interpreter knew what was going on. And finally I just said, “Tell him.” And so he told Mr. Som that I was a machine gunner and that I served in the Que Son Valley with the 9th marines. And I looked over at Mr. Som, and he smiled and kind of grinned a little bit, and then I told the interpreter. I, I said that, “I’d like to see how Mr. Som that I might have been the one that shot his leg off. And I don’t want to say that I’m sorry for doing that, but I want Mr. Som to know and understand that the war is over and at one time we – we could have been and probably were former enemies, and engaged in combat. But now we’re here together, working together to improve the quality of health care for his, for his commune. And Mr. Som stood up, and he shook my hand. And Mr. Som hugged me. And we embraced each other, and that was the dynamic moment in my Vietnam experience with Vets With A Mission.

When I talked with Mr. Som, in my experience with him. I know that I had forgiven him as an enemy before I ever spoke anything, before it had ever come out of me. It was something that happened deep inside of me, and the end result was that we embraced. And as as fellow warriors there was an honor, and there was something between us.

Chuck Ward: You may or may not know, but the founding scriptural foundation for Vets With A Mission, is 2nd Corinthians 5:18 – which is the Ministry of Reconciliation.

DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Nearly 2000 years ago, the Apostle Paul wrote a couple of letters to the people who were the church in the town of Corinth. In his second letter he wrote the part that Chuck Ward referred to which says this… “if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Chuck Ward: So Vets With A Mission has always been about reconciling people to one another. And in this context, country to country, Vet to Vet. And I’m talking about Americans, South Vietnamese, the Viet Cong, NVA. And I’m talking about people of Vietnam to the people of the United States. And most importantly, being reconciled to God. So Vets With A Mission, for many years would take American Veterans and introduce them to Viet Cong and NVA veterans at what we call reconciliation dinners. And it’s always very tense when those dinners start. But 99.9% of the time, the Veterans on each side of that table – by the time that dinner is over, they’ve got this special bond. And it’s not about winning the war or killing your enemy. It gets down to the lowest common denominator. Men begin telling one another, “I was just doing my job. I was doing what I was told to do. And I didn’t necessarily like it, but I did it, because I wanted to serve my country.” And soon these men who have issues – I mean, no one goes to war that they come back the same person, it just doesn’t happen. They begin to share, and it’s a very emotional time, and reconciliation becomes real. Because men who would have never thought of talking to one another – are talking about their families, talking about their children, talking about, “Let’s have a beer together, let’s get in touch, let’s keep in touch.” It takes place. And one of the most wonderful things about reconciliation is, you know, a lot of people struggled with Vietnam, particularly the Vets who served there. And through reconciliation, this is what happens. So many are stuck in the past, and they have so many terrible memories. And I like to make the analogy that Vietnam is like the pig in the pigsty. You’ve got the pig, and the pig is happy to be wallowing in that mud and filth and everything. And so, I make the analogy that – Vietnam is the pig, and you can go in there, and you’ve gotta wrestle with that pig – and you’re gonna come out smelling and looking like you know what. But that pig is gonna come out smiling and feeling good about itself. So why let Vietnam – why wrestle with the pig of Vietnam, and let it have that effect on you? Let it run your life, ruin your life. It’s time to move on. And through reconciliation, that’s what happens. Vets go to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission. They meet their former enemy, they meet the people. And reconciliation comes full circle from the terrible memories of 1968 or 1969, to discovering the war is really over. And through reconciliation, that war within is finally over. And when I see Vets – when that lightbulb goes off, when they’re in Vietnam on one of our teams, and they realize the war is over – not only there, but over inside. It makes – that is a great day to be in Vietnam, on a Vets With A Mission Team. 

Kent C. Williamson: One more time, Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: When the scriptures talk about God reconciling the world to himself. It’s not just that he forgave us of our sins. It’s us learning to work together with Him for the purpose of establishing His, his kingdom. We become partners with Him, and reconciliation is that. That we learn to work together—former enemies that were trying to kill each other, now are working together to build and repair the tragedy of war. The tragedy of, of such a, a horrible experience, out of it comes something that’s positive and good.

CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson:  Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. Don’t forget to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save five bucks on your copy of the film. You can also watch By War & By God for free if you have an Amazon Prime account.

You can find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email your thoughts about the show to Kent at By War And By God dot com.

The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter… except he’s missing today, so I don’t know if we need to credit him. Thanks also to my brother Brad Williamson who helped record the interviews in today’s episode.

Special thanks to Trevor Przyuski for his wonderful reading of the Walt Whitman poem Reconciliation. Thanks Trevor!

The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.

Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, and Ashby Wratchford.

This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.

By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.

And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!

EPISODE 10 – Reconciliation: With Self, Vietnam, and Former Enemies

PLAYERS: Dave Carlson, Cal Dunham, Jim Proctor, Bob Peragallo, Bill Steele, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson

SUMMARY: What does it mean to reconcile with yourself, with the country in which you fought, with your former enemies, and with your Creator?

LINKS:

By War & By God Website

Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”

Vets With A Mission

Email Kent

By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!

Paladin Pictures