Healing From Emotional Abuse: MST Military : With Amy

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Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to be a five year process either. Millions of other survivors around the worlds entire lives have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.

 

Marissa:

Hey everyone, welcome back to healing from emotional abuse. For the last few weeks, I've brought on survivors of sexual assault to talk a little bit about what they went through, and also how they healed and advice that they have for other survivors. I think it's really important to share our stories. Hence the breaking through our silence podcast, breaking through the silence my book series, I just think that the most important step and the first step towards healing is speaking about it. So if I can find as many voices to share their stories as I can, the hope is, it'll empower other survivors who are still silenced, to break their silence and feel empowered and strong about talking about it. It'll empower other survivors to speak out and tell their story. I just want you to know that you're not alone. And every person that's come on this podcast this month, and shared their story has shared the same goal. We all just want survivors to be unsilenced, to break through that barrier and know that you are never alone, and you have millions of other people who have a shared experience with you to help you through it. This is our last episode for Sexual Assault Awareness Month. And last but not least, I wanted to introduce one of my dear friends, Amy. Amy is a champion. She was abused when she was a child and has overcome so much adversity in relation to that and morphed into this powerhouse, advocate. I'm so honored to bring her on here. She's worked in several capacities with military and civilians. And she continues every single day to fight for and advocate for survivors around the world. Thank you so much for being here. Amy. I'm so excited.

 

Amy:

Well, thank you for having me.

 

Marissa:

Would you mind telling us whatever you're comfortable with about your truth about what happened to you?

 

Amy:

Well, you know, it's a very young, old teenager, right? So we're always like, 14 going on 21. And my friend and I had the really great plan that we were going to go to the party where you had met these younger soldiers, and they invited us to a party. And so we went. And I really liked this one boy. I mean, he was, of course, a man. But I looked at them kind of the same as me. And he kissed me, and I really liked it. And then he wanted to kiss somewhere else in the more private area. And so I went with him, because he was really nice and handsome. And when I told him to stop, he wouldn't stop. And when I told him I was a virgin and started crying. He was like, No, you're not. Even afterwards, like he walked me part of the way home. And then I got caught for being out past curfew. And then when they looked at me, they, they saw what had happened. And you know, it was just kind of an out of body experience. And almost like the trauma that it caused on my family was more than actually the assault. And then some other things happened after that, because I started acting out. Maybe we'll get into that part another time. But I think, you know, he actually tried to make it seem like I was his girlfriend afterwards. I mean, I think that was one of the most bizarre things. So there was this, like, mental fight in my head, about me crying to him and telling him No, and saying that I was a virgin, and then afterwards and acting like he really cared about me. So that really started a bad self image, low self esteem and acting out as a teenager. So I think that that really placed me on a path that I didn't even understand that I was on until I became an adult. And I don't think people really understand that when people are traumatized like that, that they internalize a lot of things and begin to have behaviors that seem counter intuitive of someone that you would house some people think that you would act as a victim of rape, right?

 

Marissa:

100%

 

Amy:

I was more comfortable in a combative relationship, where I didn't feel valued. And actually pushed away more healthy people because I didn't feel like I deserved that. And I think that's something that a lot of people deal with when they have been traumatized and haven't been able to have that cognitive behavioral therapy to understand that it's really not about any of your behaviors. So for me, you know, working with clients now, when the general populace as a what were they doing or you know, there, there's things that people can do men and women to avoid being sexually assaulted. It's a really huge trigger for me. You know? So I mean, should there be an expectation, if you and your friend meet a bunch of handsome young men within your age bracket, they were adults, but we weren't. But you still, you know, you as, as a young adult, you don't see a 19-20 year old as being that much different as you. It was like, right before my 15th birthday, and my friend was 16. Right? So we felt we were that age to, even though we, we didn't understand like, emotionally, maturity wise, we weren't. But in your teenage narcissistic brain, you don't see it that way.

 

Marissa:

And I want to go back to something because you brushed over something that I wanted to definitely comment on. A lot of people, especially if you were assaulted as like a teenager, young adult, when you're still kind of trying to find yourself, you lose that control that control of your body. And a lot of times very often, people will take that lesson as, “well, if people are going to use me like this anyways, if my body's only good for sex, then I want to at least be in control of it.” I mean, even if those are the words that are said, that creates this, like expectation that your body is an item or an object, and then causes a lot of promiscuity.

 

Amy:

Oh, 100%. Absolutely. Because you feel like that's the only i think it's it's more complicated than than just the promiscuity. It's a real sick, twisted, kind of, like you want to be loved so bad, but you want to be in control, but you only get attention and it's negative attention. It compounds right. So any attention is better than no attention. Right? The negative attention is easier to get.

 

Marissa:

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And it's, you're right, it's easier to get, and it takes less time and energy for a young woman, all you have to do is you know, wear a tank top in school and all the boys are looking at your shoulders and you know, it's such a double standard.

 

Amy:

What like a self-fulfilling prophecy too, right. 

 

Marissa:

Yeah, that's what I was going for.

 

Amy:

It's like the cycle of violence, right? And it's what society feeds off of, and continues the victim blaming cycle, right? Because you as the victim are actually trying to take control of your life. But then you're projecting this other image, which makes people feel like you are not a victim.

 

Marissa:

Right? And that goes back to what society paints as the perfect victim, if you're not a young girl, hysterically crying, then you're not a real victim, you know? And there's that double standard.

 

Amy:

Well, you and you take my situation, for example, I was 14, I was a virgin. Right. But I had snuck out of the house, and I drank a Barros & James peach wine cooler And, you know, I was out past curfew. So they took all of those into account and made it to be like somehow my responsibility,

 

Marissa:

Right, even though your child and not legally even allowed to consent, depending on the state.

 

 

 

Amy:

Well, I was not at an age of consent at all. If you think about it was a drug facilitated sexual assault, you had a 14 year old girl that was being fed wine coolers, and innocent kids lead it to a sexual assault. That is, by definition, the number one rape scenario in the world.

 

Marissa:

How do people respond when your family was going through it? Did you speak about it at all?

 

Amy:

Yeah, well, I mean, it was while she was wearing short shorts, and a tank top and she was at the party and she was drinking and she lied. It was all about my behavior.

 

Marissa:

And not about the fact that somebody took advantage of you as a child.

 

Amy:

Right. And I think still to this day, there's some issue with you know, our family was sent to a different location away from my dad, because he had a job to do. And he couldn't, you know, there was this whole, like, your family can't be managed in this environment. Right?

 

Marissa:

Oh, my God. So they forced you guys. Were you living on a base?

 

Amy:

Yeah. So we were sent back stateside, which is a very normal response for the military.

 

Marissa:

That's disgusting. So instead of punishing the person who, actually abused you…

 

Amy:

Our family with separated

 

Marissa:

That’s disgusting.

 

Amy:

I'm not crying right now, I might cry. You know, it's weird because, you know, sometimes I do get upset about it. But more often, my response is I’m at a place where it gives me drive. Right? When I talk about it triggers me when people talk about victims behaviors and things like that. I'm just like, well, you think for some reason that, that individual wouldn't have found another vulnerable person to take advantage of and victimize. 

 

Marissa:

Right? If they're going to abuse somebody, it's not always about who, you know, it's a matter of needing to control and have power over someone.

 

Amy:

It's error and opportunity, right? It's access. It's the same dynamic as why I'm fundamentally against people telling their children to give relatives or friends, “Oh, kids go and give so and so hug, tell them Goodbye, or give them a kiss on the cheek.  Go say thank you…” No, quit telling people that we owe them some kind of physical affection for approval.

 

Marissa:

I agree

 

Amy:
It’s not appropriate.

 

Marissa:

Yeah, you don't know the situation, you don't know what the child has to know that they are in control their body and if they are uncomfortable hugging somebody or giving someone a kiss, that they do not have to? I absolutely agree.

 

Amy:

I mean, somehow the kind of legalized prostitution that we have established in the dating world, that somehow a level of doting or flattery, or the level of expenditure for a date somehow equates to some kind of physical repayment.

 

Marissa:

It's called manipulation. You know, that's why I am fundamentally against the word friend zone. You know, you're not getting friend zone, because you are nice to somebody and they're not interested in you sexually. You were being a friend. And it having an ulterior motive on that friendship is a manipulation of the friendship and of the person.

 

Amy:

And if you think about it like this, why can't I just want to have sex with somebody just because I feel like it? You know, why should I be obligated because you took me to Smith & Wollensky’s, to an expensive dinner and then drinks on the rooftop at a ritzy bottle service. So now I owe you oral sex. Or maybe like, I'm just having fun with you. And we could have had a picnic in the park and went to your rooftop private deck. And I would just felt like giving you oral sex. It shouldn't matter. There shouldn't be an expectation of economic output somehow gives you physical… Like, why don’t we just start doing dollar for dollar?  I mean, I don't know for you if as as a woman you've ever experienced someone being like, well, you paid $150. For dinner, we had a $75 bar tab. So now you're up to $225. Right? So you think that my vagina is worth $225?

 

Marissa:

That's not nearly enough.

 

Amy:

Right? So I mean, if we're gonna have an equitable exchange, escorts that don't even give any kind of sexual pleasure at the end of the night make more money than that. So if you just wanted something to sit there and be pretty, we're gonna have to reevaluate this. I'm saying like, this is an issue, right? But somehow it yields to all these other social issues that somehow somebody is nice to you, you owe them something, right. Why can't you just say thank you, and be appreciative and let something …

 

Marissa:

Build and grow.

 

Amy:

Yeah, become something organically.

 

Marissa:

That's what it should be. But I think that, I don't know, people become so greedy, and they value their money more than they value, your ability to make decisions for yourself. I don't owe anybody anything. Nobody owes anyone anything. Not sex, not your body, not nothing, unless it's agreed upon.

 

Amy:

But those those thought processes yield to the same rape culture, right? It's like why people don't have any kind of, I don't know if anger is the right word I wanted. Okay. So, if a child is sexually abused, right, people are out of control up in arms, right? So if I'm married for 10 years, and my husband gets drunk and comes home and slaps me around a little bit, not enough to bruise me up. Just kind of read my cheeks a little bit and then rapes me. People really don't get excited about that. They don't seem to have this that is the same type of trauma, when it is. When it's someone you know, love and trust, that's kind of like, "Well, you've had sex with him, like, I don't know, over the course of how many years, whatever, once a month times 12 times 10. So whatever, I'm just throwing out numbers, so you've had sex with him? At least 120 times a year. So what what's the problem with this time.” It's kind of how it's looked at, right?

 

Marissa:

Mm hmm. Yep.

 

Amy:

You got it on ya. You've been giving it to them anyway. So why are you so upset now? All of these thought processes continue to perpetuate the same thing? Why are rapes going up in our society?

 

Marissa:

Because we don't address rape culture the right way, we paint a perfect victim. And if you don't sit in that perfect victims, exact identity, you're not a victim.

 

Amy:

And I mean, and I'm not saying this is the thing, I'm just kind of throwing a thought, is it because women are generally being an empowering themselves in the workplace, and taking on different roles. And so the best way to reduce and take away our power is to sexually harass us, or take our power away by physically assaulting us with rape.

 

Marissa:

I'm sure that has a lot to do with it. I think it's also just a power struggle.

 

Amy:

If you go back to the Viking culture, like Viking women used to run the show. And then they t picked the men that were the strongest to have children with their children would survive in their rough surroundings and culture and all of these things. And then they started being overpowered. And they became victims of rape and then the power balance changed.

 

Marissa:

That's so interesting. I didn't know that.

 

Amy:

Yeah, so I find as a professional woman, thank God, as professional woman, I have done my best to protect myself and haven't been like, actually raped, but I have been sexually assaulted via rear and grab. You know, you don't even think about it because someone grabbed your rear end. It's not the same level of trauma, but is the same level of I don't really give a shit about you. But what I have experienced quite frequently is when they can't attack my character, or my ability, or my professionalism, they somehow figure out a way to say that I my clothes are somehow too attractive,

 

Marissa:

Or too small, or, you know, make comments about your body. They do that to me. They used to do that to me all the time.

 

Amy:

Right? To the point where like, I started wearing turtlenecks to work. One of my friends is like, well, you're not making excuses for but you know, she's fallen into that same. Like, would rather protect herself and go against grain. She's like, “Well, Amy, you know, you shouldn't have gotten a boob job and you wouldn't have so much attention.” I'm like, these are mine. Even if I did get a boob job that, like it has no bearing,. And she's like, “Because even with turtlenecks, you can't hide them.” I'm like, Well, I can't do anything with them. Because this is how God made my body. And so what if I would have gotten a boob job? What's the big deal? And she was right. It didn't matter if I was wearing a sweater or a turtleneck, or a V neck or a dress or a sweater-dress or Michael Kors dress or whatever. There's certain things it is just what it is. And somehow I'm responsible for you taking, staring at me and trying to take my power by saying there's something about my body that makes me less valuable at work?

 

Marissa:

That it's disgusting. And it's just a means to silence women and silence people by making them feel inferior in their bodies. It's not your fault that you were born  with boobs. It's and it's not your fault. If you buy boobs, you know, if you haven't you make you can't control anyone else’s behavior. Because you did something for you. That's not your problem. That is the offender's problem always. They're the ones that make the choice.

 

Amy:

Sometimes not even the offender. That is the worst issue. Other people his opinions, like perpetuate rape culture. Yeah, I'm like you guys are helping the rapist? Yo, what's going on here?

 

Marissa:

People who perpetuate rape culture, encourage rapists, you're 100% on point. We know we make it so easy for them. Because we're already telling people that they shouldn't be who they are in their bodies and we're telling people they shouldn't wear certain things and if I'm comfortable wearing booty shorts and it tank top to a party. And I want to that does not mean somebody gets to touch or comment or take any part of my body that is not theirs. It is still my body.

 

Amy:

Well, I'll tell you an interesting phenomenon. I have never in all my life, the safest I’ve felt in my body is being a nude beach. Yes, like I didn't feel ogled, I wasn't stared at, I wasn't hit on, I was just left alone, to be in my own body and my own safe space, and enjoy all the vitamin D to every part of my parts.

 

Marissa:

I feel like that's because everyone's in the same vulnerable place. If you can feel vulnerable, you know, in your body or naked, but everyone is showing all they've got, you know, so what makes you so different from everyone else?

 

Amy:

Exactly. Well, and I think there's also hard rules, no cameras, no sexual behavior, you know, all of these things. There no creep, under a tent, or under an umbrella with a big hat, you know, taking secret pictures of people.

 

Marissa:

That makes sense. And other cultures like other countries are very cavalier about nude beaches. I think America has a big problem with nudity. Whereas other countries have a big problem with the violence we portray in our media, we have a problem with the way that they are more sexually open or aware.

 

Amy:

Even being working in rape crisis, working with child sexual assault. If you are against a rape culture, that somehow you are a man hating, sexist, feminist, right? And that you don't enjoy sex; That all men are bad; That you don't like men; And you hate sex. And that is completely bad and you should be some kind of nun. It's strange, and not liking rape does not mean you don't like sex. They are not the same thing.

 

Marissa:

Exactly. That's what I was just about to say.

 

Amy:

I needed to get it through people like schools, rape crisis counselors and people that intervene in rape situations and help people get the help they need so they can get their power back, do not hate men, and do not hate sex.

 

Marissa:

I've never heard that one. But I appreciate you bringing that up.

 

Amy:

I want to put this out as a public service announcement for men and women, regardless of who you like to have the sex with. If you are respectful of people's bodies, if you are respectful of their time and space, and where they're at emotionally, and you give them love and honesty, they will want to make love to you, if they are attracted to you. Because our bodies are built to want to have sexual pleasure. You know, we are one of the only other mammals in the world that have sex for pleasure. We're supposed to like it. It's supposed to be enjoyable, it's healthy for you. It's healthy, to have orgasms, to release those endorphins. It's healthy to share that intimacy with somebody that you trust. All of that is healthy. What is not healthy, is taking somebody's body for your own pleasure and abusing them, and hurting them.

 

Marissa:

Absolutely. Thank you for that PSA. So what are you doing? So we know you're working with rape crisis. What do you do? What are you doing? What projects are you working on?

 

Amy:

So right now, we've had a lot of forward movement and being more educated, in child sexual abuse, and cycle’s of violence, and families with pedophilia. And we've been more spoken out about rape situations and things like that. But unfortunately, from my perspective as a professional, we have gone away from like the grassroots of actually helping the people that have been traumatized, to spending millions of dollars on these overarching organizations that kind of leave the victims at the wayside. And don't get to the root of the problem and take the initial crisis, and don't follow that person through to the end state. Also, working within the confines that you know, money has become an issue. And there's been a lot of abuse of power where people haven't been able to get the help that they need, because they're stuck in these organizations that have a very structured hierarchy and giving people an alternative source to find that help outside of those confines.

 

Marissa:

No, it does. When I used to work for the military, one of the things that I would do is help people that were sexually assaulted, either on deployment or not. And I would very seldom connect them to people, military related. And I would outsource to other resources to therapists and programs that were not related to the military. Because the way the military handled it was so regimented, and truly, like incorrect. It wasn't in good conscience. I couldn't in good conscience, relate them to like the VA, who I know is not going to help them, or to their commander who I knew was not going to help them.

 

Amy:

Well, I think help looks different, right? Say, for example, that I work at McDonald's, and I need this job to take care of my family. And I've worked there, maybe nine months, in the shift supervisor has worked there10 years, and it’s franchise, McDonald's, and he's friends with the owner andnd the manager. And I become sexually assaulted, and then it becomes the owner of the McDonald’s right, absolute right, undeniable, like they have carte blanche authority over whether their shift leader - that gives them the most returns, the most capital, the largest producing revenue - that  owner gets to decide whether that shift leader that raped to me gets a slap on the hand or actually punished. How well do you think that that works?

 

Marissa:

Probably not? Well, I'm pretty sure that you the employee, are expendable. And the person they've had this relationship with is easier to believe, because they, “Know them better.”

 

Amy:

And they are equitable for them, right?

 

Marissa:

Mm hmm.

 

Amy:

And then my other colleagues, that also worked for the same shift leader, well, that shift leader all gives them all the best like shifts. I'm another single mother that works there. And that shift leader knows that I have to be off on Mondays because my kid has speech therapy. And they always make whether I have to work on Mondays or not, they always make arrangements for me that I always am off to go take my childhood speech therapy. Am I going to retaliate against you that are going to jack up my way of life? Am I going to side with the shift leader? Or, am I going to support my colleague?

 

Marissa:

That's a really good analogy. It's a great way to put it. You're right, because there are so many sides to the stories and so many people being affected, that we kind of lose sight of the one important factor and that safety.

 

Amy:

And there's no oversight, right? Right. As the owner of McDonald's, I can be like, “Well, you know, in order to protect my product, to protect my brand, then none of the things that we're doing to punish the shift leader is releasable to the public.” Now, let me ask you, let's see, let's pick a town. I don't know just say Boulder, Colorado, right. And that McDonald's owner owns 10 stores, right? That shift leader then gets promoted after they raped the one person. And we don't know what happened to them, because it might leak our French fry recipe out, right. So then that shift leader gets promoted to be the regional shift leader. And they raped two more people, and they keep their job. And then they raped five more people. So, now we're up to eight people sexually assaulted by one person, one shift leader, but he makes a lot of money. He does a good job for that McDonald's in Boulder. And this is the like a scenario. There's no such thing didn't happen in Boulder. Like, I'll just give that caveat. This is a made up scenario. And that eighth person that gets sexually assaulted, finds out that back in the day, there was a number one rape victim, they got screwed over. And they call that person be like, you know what, I'm sorry, that happened to you, too. You know, I know. I'm the eighth person who's done this to. What the hell? Then, the first and the eighth person decides to go outside of that McDonald's hierarchy. And they go to the press and the press is like holy shit. Now what do you think the community in Boulder, Colorado would say to that?

 

Marissa:

They get really mad that they allowed, I hope, I hope they get really mad that McDonald's owner allowed that person to go on a raping spree. I mean, I hope..

 

Amy:

I think that they would boycott that McDonald's, because they're allowing people to be raped in order to make money. To protect their brand,

 

Marissa:

Exactly. What's the economic value of a person, the monetary value of a human being?

 

Amy:

So you take that scenario, and you feed it into the overarching hierarchy of the military? Who does have the power to say, you can't know about that? Because it might affect national security? Where does that leave somebody? Especially service members that still cannot utilize a lot of our other given rights? Because the Fairness Doctrine?

 

Marissa:

What's that?

 

Amy:

That says that service members can't sue the military for damages.

 

Marissa:

They're not allowed to sue at all?

 

Amy:

They can’t. There's a caveat right now for medical malpractice, but it's very, very narrow. 

 

Marissa:

Hmm. So the military can allow someone to hurt you, you can transfer them, they can mistreat you, they can gaslight you, transfer you wherever they want, they can take away your rights and privileges as a service member - which most of the time are what  give you value, your ability to you know, have a gun and your ability to defend. They took both those things away from you. And you can't sue them for any of it. You can't retaliate for any of it.

 

Amy:

You can't protect yourself. I can tell you, I've talked to many service members active and retired and medically discharged, that they were told to suck it up.

 

Marissa:

I believe the term that I heard a lot was “Unfuck yourself.”

 

Amy:

That's another term that they use quite frequently, but no, and I want to make it very clear. It depends on who's in charge, right? Like not all owners and McDonald's not all leaders military are bad. But when everything relies on that person's good or bad decision making, and there's no oversight, where do you have it? I don't think that the general public also knows that a commander in the military can decide to accept a level of risk. It's their decision. And they can be advised, but nobody has there's no force function.

 

Marissa:

That's a lot of power for one person.

 

Amy:

It is. And then you add in the cloak of we can't be transparent because the national security. There is nothing about somebody being raped or sexually assaulted, that has an adverse effect on national security. The one thing that would have adverse effect on national security is rapists being allowed to continue to rape people, especially in a deployed environment. How mission ready do you think your soldiers, men and women, service members, sailors Airmen; How well do you think they're going to be able to carry out their mission to protect our freedom if they're worried that someone's going to sexually assault them? And oh, by the way, if you say anything, you need to figure it out yourself.

 

Marissa:

So what can we as advocates and the public do to help service members feel more powerful or to feel more protected? Like how can we help?

 

Amy:

And that's part of what we're working to establish. Yes, you are service members, and yes, you have different confines, because you are. But there, there are certain things that can't be taken away from you. If you're a victim of a violent crime, there are federal victim crime rights that have to be upheld by the military, as well as in civilian world. And those things are not being held to a standard. You have a right to be reasonably heard. You have a right to be conferred with. You know, and some people get confused about what that means. If I'm a victim of sexual assault, I have the right to talk to the person that's adjudicating that crime. So, I get to have my say in court. Regardless of how they dispose of it. Whether, you know it goes to a court process or not. I, as a victim, get to say, because this person did this to me, it adversely affected my life, in this way. Like I get to say that. I get to be informed of the proceeding. Very, very simple, transparent things that are not occurring

 

Marissa:

And aren't a risk to public safety.

 

Amy:

No. And there's no force function when it doesn't happen. Okay, so they didn't do it. So what? Well, the same people that have the ability to fix it, are the same people that are not doing the things that they're supposed to that's been in federal law since the Reagan administration.

 

Marissa:

So what can what can we do to support service members going through this?

 

Amy:

Well, I think that they need to know that there is military advocacy available, but there's also other nonprofits that are also federally funded, that they can get services through. That know what their rights are. If the same owner of McDonald's is like, “Okay, well, this person I hired to be your advocate." How comfortable are you gonna feel going to that person knowing that the same guy or girl that's paying the paycheck of your rapist is also paying the paycheck of your advocate?

 

Marissa:

It just seems like a conflict of interest.

 

Amy:

It's an exact conflict of interest.

 

Marissa:

Where did the loyalty lie JAGs aren't going to go against the military, because that's who pays them, it makes sense. They're not going to bite the hand that feeds them.

 

Amy:

The legislation came up with this beautiful thing, because during Article 32 Hearings, which is basically like a grand jury indictment, they were violating victims rights all over the place. Every person that, that person has ever had any kind of sexual contact with or any kind of flaw, as it would be seen in their personality, (which don’t think it's a flaw to go to behavioral health,) but they were using those things as flaws. Like, “this person's crazy. And they have sex with everybody.” And so it was brought up to Congress, and they're like, “Okay, well, we're gonna enact this law for the National Defense Authorization Act, that deeds folks get their own lawyers,”  which are like, if you're familiar with any kind of civilian court processes, or, you know, anything that with child protections, like a guardian ad litem, right? It's, it's supposed to be just for that person. Except the person that rates that lawyer, or gives them their performance employment evaluations for promotions and what not, is the same lawyer that the JAG, the Judge Advocate General, for the commander that decides whether to prosecute their case or not. And then let's add another little addition to that. That same lawyer that is supposed to protect the rights of victims, and they do the best job that they can. There’s a saying in the military: Never take on what your rank can handle. So if you know anything about rank structure: You’ve got Captain, then you have Major, Lieutenant Colonel, Full-Bird Colonel, which not a lot of people make Full Bird Colonel ever in their career, then you have a One Star General and a Two Star General. Right? So there are five ranks in between that captain, who is that victims lawyer. You’re a Captain for about seven years. You’re a Major for about three years. Lieutenant Colonel, four to five years. Colonel three to four, depending. So, that you have rank and experience on top of it, right? So you're usually in your 50s before you become a general. So you not only have five ranks on top of me, but you have probably about, at least, 15 to 17 years of experience that I'm fighting against.

 

Marissa:

It’s not a fair battle.

 

Amy:

It's like allowing a freshman to wrestle a senior out of their weight class. 

 

Marissa:

Yeah, it just it seems like a losing battle. And that person is your superior like you can't in the military structure, you can't disrespect somebody of a higher rank than you there's an authority in your rank, like you said.

 

Amy:

Yeah, never take on what your rank and authority can't handle. They're gonna do the best that they can, but they're also not protected.

 

Marissa:

So what we need to do is create a new system, which is what your coalition is doing, right?

 

Amy:

So what the coalition is, at this juncture, is an alternative advocacy group that knows the confines of the military. So, any service member that reaches out to this coalition can rest assured that the military cannot press us.

 

Marissa:

I love that.

 

Amy:

You can't. You can have idle threats all day long,

 

Marissa:

But they can’t influence it because it's not funded by the military.

 

Amy:

We don't have any military contracts. There's a lot of rape crisis organizations that have million    dollar contracts with the Department of Defense.

 

Marissa:

So if we wanted to support this coalition, how can we do that?

 

Amy:

Well, we're at our infancy right now, I think that there's more to follow on, if people want to support it, that we can give them some contact information. And the website is in development stage right now. Right now you guys can just send us all your good love vibes. As we get it going. We're going to try to launch very soon, but we don't have like a hard date. But we can do a follow on podcast and talk more about that.

 

Marissa:

Of course, I'll update the description when we have more solid info, but I'll put the website and everything in the description. So if you want to learn more, at a later date, you're more than welcome to go to the website, send some emails, look at the amazing work that Amy's doing with this coalition and her amazing team.

 

Amy:

And if you want to also you can, you can add the Shadley Editions as part of our coalition. So, retired Major General Robert Shadley, he part of the coalition, he and his wife, Camilla. And he blogs about this stuff all the time. And he was the only commanding officer that actually conducted a proper investigation. He wrote a book about it called The Game: Unraveling Military Sex Scandals. And he busted wide open the sex scandal that was going on in Aberdeen Proving Ground and that training environment.  And he did it the right way. He says all the time, he writes in his book, “You will be more successful in the military, if you commit a sexual offense than you would be if you reported one.” And I think that speaks volumes.

 

Marissa:

That's a really strong statement.

 

Amy:

And he loves the military. And I want to be very clear, there's not any of us that don't support, love and cherish what, you know, service members do. And we don't want to do anything that would adversely affect them. But what we do want is for people to understand that it's wrong to punish somebody for reporting their sexual assault. It's wrong. And it's not okay. It's wrong to retaliate against people who stand up for victims of sexual assault and harassment. And there is no place outside of the military, that gives people a venue to say, “Hey, this happened, and it's not okay. And I need help.” And there's not any other organization that I'm aware of, that actually provides direct Client Services, advocacy, to people that are suffering because their sexual assault or harassment are being mishandled. We love Protect Our Defenders. We collaborate with them all the time. They're very legislation focused, and we support them, and we support each other. But legislation is amazing, and we support all of their efforts. But every person matters and direct services to clients matters. You know, we have many families that participate in the coalition that their children have committed suicide, because their children did not receive the support and help that they're legally allowed and had a right to have. And one child committing suicide is too much. But there are far too many young men and women killing themselves because they were so badly harassed, teased, blackmailed, after they reported their sexual assault. And there's no excuse for it. And these families that their children have, could suicide, you know, receive copies of investigations that are so highly redacted, they don't even know what on earth happened. Nowhere else in the world could people contribute to the death of your child and not be transparent with you and what people did and didn't do?

 

Marissa:

That's disgusting. Thank you so much for sharing your story and for all the amazing work you're doing to help survivors in the military and outside of the military. We'll definitely do another interview. When your coalition is out of the infancy phase.

 

Amy:

Yes, this is like a like a preview. In the preview, yeah, we'll do it. We'll do a launch party.

 

Marissa:

Perfect. I will put in the description of this podcast the date. I'll keep it up to date with information about our launch and the website and everything. Thank you so much, Amy.

 

Hey! If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching. Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!

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