Healing From Emotional Abuse: Movies About Narcissism : With Mike Sellari (Part 2)

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Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to be a five year process either. Millions of other survivors around the worlds entire lives have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.

 

Marissa:

Hey everyone!  Welcome back to Healing From Emotional Abuse. This is part 2 of my conversation with Mike Sellari.  Writer, director, producer and movie expert. With Mike’s insight, we were able to pick apart a bunch of movies with depicted sexual assault and discuss the necessity of those scenes, in relation to the themes of the films.  If you haven’t heard part 1 yet, go check it out on Youtube, iHeart Radio, Spotify, Podbean, Stiticher, iTunes, basically any platform that hosts podcasts.  In this episode of Healing Through Emotional Abuse, we dive a little deeper into the world of cinema.  And just a heads up, some of these depictions of sexual assault may be graphic and potentially triggering.  And there will definitely be movie spoilers.

 

Marissa:

I think that rape and sexual assault and domestic violence have been used as slapstick comedy for a really long time because it was not something that was really questioned.  Every time somebody came forward about domestic violence through the late 90s, the police would show up, they would tell the narcissist or abuse to take a walk around the block, and they’d question the victim about what they did to piss off the abuser.  That’s how it was handled.  It wasn’t handled. That’s the problem.

 

Mike:

Yeah, and you see that.  You see that in the first season of Veronica Mars, and it kind of carries on into the second season of Veronica Mars. It is about a rape, and she goes to the police to report it, and his response is, “You know, I think you should go see the Wizard, and ask him for some guts.” Or something like that.  I don’t remember exactly what he tells her to ask for. 

 

Marissa:
Because that still happens today, in real life.  But also, I don’t know if you’ve seen the Netflix show, Unbelievable. 

Mike:
Yeah, I love it.

 

Marissa:

Okay, Awesome!  So, Unbelievable is based on true stories.  It’s about several people who have been sexually assaulted or raped in various places around the country.  And with the first case specifically, she goes to the police right away, she makes her report.  They ask her the same question 55 times. And then they find one small detail that she mixed up, because it’s really easy for us to forget the exact order of things - who she called first was the thing she mixed up- and then they get her on that, convince her what happened didn’t happen, made her believe that the police were never going to help her.  So she just admits defeat, says it was a lie, even though it wasn’t.  And then she get ostracized for it.

 

That’s the kind of stuff I’m hoping becomes more common in film and tv - just like you were saying before.  We have to see the uncomfortable stuff to really feel it and understand it, and take the severity of it to heart.  If we don’t see it, if they were doing it off screen, or they do just soundbytes or it’s just a black screen or whatever, it takes the power and the discomfort away from us.  And it makes it easy to excuse.

 

So even in the show 13 Reasons Why, which I know you’ve seen. When that show was released, the National Suicide Hotline said that their phone calls blew up 40x.  So, 40x the normal number of calls were made to the hotline.  Which is a phenomenal, but also awful, because you don’t know if those same people were already suicidal or if it was something they felt glorified suicide.  The statistics were never conclusive.  One thing I did really appreciate - I watched a little bit of the second season and it really felt like it was trying to bank too much on the #MeToo Movement, which pissed me off a lot - but I really appreciated the cinematography of the rape scene because it’s so, you just, it just.  Oh god. The closeup of her face, and you just see her.. the life leave her eyes. 

 

Mike:

Yeah

 

Marissa:

The humanity just falls out of her.  And it lingers like 10 seconds too long.  And they did that on purpose so that you could truly see the dehumanization of a person when they’re being raped.

 

Mike:

I’m going to move away from movies for just a second to mention a book that I just recently finished and I recommend to you and your listeners.  It’s covering a lot of topics here. And what it’s called is Talking To Strangers. It’s a Malcom Gladwell book.  The thesis of the book is that we as a society do not know how to talk to strangers.  We do something called “defaulting to truth,” meaning that as soon as somebody says something to us, even if we haven’t met them before, our inclination is to believe that person.  And the reason we do that is because if we don’t, society can’t function.  That’s how society functions is because of default to truth.  If everybody is super suspicious of every single person, we can’t trust anybody, society can’t function.  The whole premise of the book is, we don’t know how to talk to each other.  We don’t know how to make decisions regarding each other.  We really don’t know how to read people.  And because of that, problems arise. You can’t tell comfortability, or if you are, you’re not sure about it.

 

You look at people who have made these apologies and stuff like that in real life.  And you can find the difference between the people we like and the people we don’t like.  Dan Harmon comes to mind, where Megan Ganz accused him of sexual harassment.  It’s what I mentioned before. He was always asking her out.  He was her boss, she was afraid to do certain things.  There was this sexual harassment thing, and she called him out on it and it became a whole situation.  I highly recommend everyone to listen to his apology.  It’s a masterclass of apologizing, how he did it on his podcast, talking about the situation.  That’s why he’s still doing Rick and Morty and still able to do stuff.  He has his show Harmontown.

 

Alright, we’re talking about abuse and all that stuff, we have to hit the main ones.  There are two movies that we haven’t talked about that we’ve gotta talk about.  First is, The Last Tango in Paris.  Marlon Brando, there’s that infamous scene where he rapes her with butter. She talks about how that has affected her as a person and as an actress.  Last Tango in Paris was a move, though, that was highly revered. People still talk about how much that movie has influenced them. Now, this girl was traumatized by this.  She was 19 years old, they didn’t have it in the script.  She showed up on the day, and they said, in this scene, he’s going to rape you and use butter as lubricant. It’s obviously not really happening but she was crying.  The tears you see in the movie are her real tears.  And Bertolucci and Brando defended themselves throughout the years, and it became contentious.  I think that’s why the Last Tango in Paris doesn’t come up in the conversation of great cinema anymore, which is fine.  There are movies that we revere at a time and then we can say, “We’re done with that.” And we can move on. 

 

It can still exist and we can watch it for  posterity.  But we don’t always have to revere something because it was revered in the past. And I think we’re learning that more and more.  And I think that’s something that, it took a while for people to treat women the right way, or at least closer to the right way.  Movies we have to talk about.  Last Tango in Paris, it’s a brutal thing, and we didn’t see it as brutal in the time.

 

On the flip side, there’s a movie that we do see as brutal and it was seen as brutal at the time.  And that’s The Last House On The Left, and that’s Wes Craven’s first movie.  I just watched it for the first time a couple months ago.  I’d been putting it off for a while.  I knew what it was about. They remade it recently, not as aggressive. And I mean, it’s a staple in horror cinema.  When you watch it, you can see the moments of Wes Craven’s talent.  I mean, you can see his talent in there.

 

The premise of the movie is, these two girls are going to a concert in the city.  They meet this guy, he is like, “Hey, come hang out.” and stuff like that.  Him and his family are actually escaped convicts.  And they torture them, they keep them hostage.  They rape one of the girls.  It’s very brutal.  And this one girl dies just walking into water, just defeated.  It feels very much like an Ophelia moment, and she’s dead.  And it’s just brutal watching it.  And to a point, you can say it’s gratuitous. And early Wes Craven movies did that. And there are movies that put rape in their movies that I don’t think they need to.  Recent one that comes to mind is Don’t Breathe.  But Last House On The Left I think needs it in there, because it goes back to that brutality thing.  It shows that these are the most debased people ever. 

 

And theres a reason people watch that.  There’s a reason wired in us that is kind of okay with violence.  And maybe that’s because society told us it’s okay with violence.  PG-13 movies with blood are okay, but not a little sex. 

 

There’s a great movie documentary called This Film Is Not Yet Rated, which is about the MPAA,  the Motion Picture Association of America.  The people who rate movies.  And they talk about, if there are two similar things in two different movies, one gets rated PG-13, one gets R.  And a lot of times it has to do with sexual orientation.  Gay stuff ends up being R, Hetero stuff ends up being PG-13. Again, a lot of this changes.   There is violence to a certain extent.

 

Marissa:

A lot of the things you say are based on perspective.  But also, based from your experience.  And that’s totally okay.  I actually just want to shift gears just a tad, and go to pedophilia.  For some reason, while you were talking, what popped into my head was American Beauty.  And I’m not a Kevin Spacey fan anymore.  I’m actually quite devastated at the destruction he caused, because I was a big Kevin Spacey fan, and then found out he’s a pedophile in real life.  And Anthony Rapp is one of my favorite Broadway actors. So, I have a real issue.

 

Mike:

You are the big Broadway girl.

 

Marissa:

BIG Broadway girl.  So, for him to have hurt somebody who I have never met, and have so much love for… and hurt anyone in general. To rape somebody and assault somebody in general…

 

Mike:
But specifically Anthony Rapp

 

Marissa:

Specifically Anthony Rapp. it makes him such a horrible human being.  But American Beauty, growing up was one of my favorite movies.  I just thought it was so creative. And looking back I’m like, No no, this is an adult male, 40-something or 50-something, having an over sexualized infatuation with a 15 year old.  Now, in some states, like Mississippi, that’s actually okay, because the age of consent is 14.  But in most states, I think pretty much every state but Mississippi, that’s SO not okay. And that is SO wrong.  So I just want to focus on that for a minute, and see if you can think of any other movies or examples of movies that have that kind of theme, and okay and almost glorify pedophilia. 

 

Mike:
Well, I will in a sense, I mean, I’ll get you there in a second. I don’t know if there’s a lot of stuff that glorifies it. But, we looked at things in different ways.  First off, you’ve gotta remember where we come from.  We were okay with Elvis Presley marrying, how old was she? Like 13 or 14 years old?  And I mean, you see it for forever.

 

Look at The Professional. Natalie Portman and John Reno are fantastic in it.  And it’s about the relationship between a grown man and a young girl. Now, he sees it more as a Father-Daughter relationship, and she obviously tries to flip it around.  And you can kind of look at that relationship and think, how is that not related to Besson’s own relationship with Maïwenn Besco? She was this french model, but she was really young when she was dating Luc Besson.  And I know people have had conversations about why Drake is friends with Millie Bobby Brown. That seems weird just because they’re both actors or famous or something. 

 

And we again, default to truth, and want to hope that people are the best that they are, and we’re all just trying to pick each other up, and meet cool people.  And I mean, look, I work in the entertainment industry.  I’m a talent manager.  I have clients and I’ve worked with clients who are kids; I’ve worked with clients who are older. And I would call some of them friends.  Is it weird that I have an 18 year old friend? It’s someone I work with.  So, it becomes complicated in this kind of industry because I work with them, but at the same time, they are kids.  And then it’s like, what are we saying “work” is? And it becomes complicated. 

I think it’s just ultimately looking at it at a case-by-case basis.  If you want to look at movies, Manhattan was always one that always put me a little off.  The premise of the movie is Woody Allen is dating this really young girl.

 

Marissa:

Wasn’t Woody Allen sleeping with his step daughter? Not his step daughter, his adopted daughter, or his foster daughter?  No, his adopted daughter.

 

Mike:

Yes.  And it’s also not glorified.  It’s not meant to be a good thing. People call him out on it.  But it seems like a funny movie. People praise this movie, and stuff like that. The movie charms us.  In the world of the movie, we’re there.  And I haven’t seen Manhattan in a very long time. I believe it’s not used… they don’t say this is a good thing, I think people really do call him out on it.  I’m trying to think of other movies.  There’s definitely tons of movies where young girls have been sexualized. 

 

But you’re talking about pedophilia.  I mean, movies that really do explore it in interesting ways.  I mean there’s Little Children, which is a fantastic movie.  There’s Mysterious Skin, which is about how two people have coped with being sexually abused as children by their baseball coach.  There’s also Mystic River, plays on dealing with a pedophile, and how does it affect you.  Here’s the thing, a lot of the examples I’m coming up with don’t say this is a good thing. And to an extent, American Beauty doesn’t say it’s a good thing.

 

Marissa:

I just think they do a really beautiful job of creating a positive character arch for Kevin Spacey’s character. He goes from being this miserable, horrible dad, totally removed, piece of crap human being, to  then he just sees this girl in a skimpy outfit as a cheerleader, at 15 or 16 years old, and his whole world changes.  He starts being happier, and sticking up for himself.  He quits his job and starts working out.

 

Mike:
Well, okay. So this is something about American Beauty, which again, I think further along will change.  I mean, 90s and you probably remember this, were such a different time with everything.  And so good. And also, it’s a pre-9/11 movie.  And it’s weird when you see pre-9/11 movies and you see peoples problems.  It’s like, our problem was, we were too bored with our lives.  Look at Fight Club.  Look at American Beauty. I mean, Revolutionary Road, which was kind of a sequel to American Beauty in a spiritual way in my mind, because they were both directed by Sam Mendez and they both are explaining the boringness of suburbia and how it kills us.  Little Children does the same thing.  And I don’t think that they’re saying that he’s… I don’t even think they’re saying in American Beauty that Lester Burnum was a bad dad.  He is a person that is now bored with his station in life. He’s in the suburbs, he did everything he was supposed to. And then, yes, he gets an injection of, “Maybe I need to start living my life.”  And has this mid-life crisis thing, where he starts smoking weed, and working out, and doing all this stuff.  And working at Burger King, and stuff like that.  And he knows his wife is having an affair.  And that’s part of the thing that pushes him.   And what’s one of the most mid-life crises things, you date a younger woman. 

 

And I know… Marissa just made the biggest grimace face… Everyone, just so you know.  But that was something seen as stereotypical.  Stereotypical thing in the 90s, when some guy would go through a mid-life crisis, they would buy a motorcycle or a hot-rod or corvette.  They would go on some vacation.  They would maybe have an affair with a younger woman.  It’s seen in so many movies.  It’s really cliche, and that’s what American Beauty kind of plays on.  And then what is to make that even worse? And that’s where he stops.

 

When he has that moment to have sex, and then right before he dies, he has that content moment where he’s looking at that photo of his family, and he realizes, “You know, I had it all along.” Again, I haven’t seen it in a while.

 

And this is where you and me differ.  I can separate art from the person. It’s difficult sometimes because you say, well this came from this persons mind. Yet, this mind is also that.  And what I’ve noticed from people is, people are complicated. And people have different layers to themselves. It’s an onion, it really isn’t just one thing.  Kevin Spacey can be a good actor and can also be the biggest piece of shit ever.  And I can still say he’s a good actor.  Woody Allen has written some of the best screenplays of all time.  And has been a shitty person.  Louis C.K. is gross.  But, Hilarious is a great comedy special.

 

Marissa:

I’m going to definitely comment on the Louis C.K. thing. Because I went and saw him at Madison Square Garden before the accusations came out, and I remember him making a joke about masturbating in front of his assistants or employees.  And it was so gross that it was funny because of the way he said it, and the way he worded it.

 

Mike:

Exactly.  It’s meant as a matter of fact thing to play on our ideas of society, and hold a mirror to it in a weird way.  Obviously, he was commenting on real things, but when you’re not looking at it in a context, it plays differently.

 

Marissa:

But that to me rang differently because he knew he was doing something wrong, and disgusting, and made a big joke about it. So not only was he doing the bad thing, but then he was mortifying the people he was actually doing bad things to, knowing they couldn’t hurt him. I would say he, I remember he waited a year after the accusation came out to come out and start doing comedy again, and apologize.  I’m still kind of conflicted about it. I do think that his comedy is good, but like you said, I just have a difficult time differentiating the art from the person.

 

Mike:
I know.  And there are some episodes of Louis that are just out of this world fantastic.

 

Marissa:

Thank you so much for doing this with me Mike.  Oh my gosh, I’m happy we got to have this chat and you are so knowledgeable and awesome to talk to. And you’re very funny.  I really hope we get to do this again soon. I love the idea of us watching a movie and then discussing it. I definitely have al list now of movies I have to watch.

 

Hey! If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching. Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!

 

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