Best of Today
620 episodes - English - Latest episode: 5 days ago - ★★★★ - 194 ratingsInsight, analysis and expert debate as key policy makers are challenged on the latest news stories.
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Episodes
Lord Cameron defends UK involvement in Israel-Iran
April 15, 2024 08:45 - 14 minutes - 13.6 MBRAF typhoons flew over the skies of the Middle East to help protect Israel on Saturday night after Iran launched a direct attack on the country for the first time since the Islamic Revolution in 1979. The UK was one of several countries, including the US, which helped counter Iran's attack. Today's Nick Robinson speaks to Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron.
How a Prime Minister’s affair was kept secret for so long
April 11, 2024 08:42 - 8 minutes - 8.12 MBFormer Prime Minister Harold Wilson's close adviser Bernard Donoughue tells Today about the PM's affair kept secret for half a century and why he's revealing it now. (Photo: Harold Wilson. Credit: Getty Images)
Alec Stewart on a lifetime at the Oval
April 04, 2024 12:03 - 6 minutes - 5.68 MBCounty cricket is back, and Surrey are looking to win the championship for the third year in succession. It would be a fitting send off for their director of cricket, Alec Stewart, who's retiring at the end of the season after 11 years. Today sports presenter Garry Richardson has been to the Oval -- the home of Surrey cricket -- to meet the former England captain and reflect on his long career.
Andrew Scott on playing the fascinating Talented Mr Ripley
April 02, 2024 09:01 - 6 minutes - 6.26 MBThe award-winning actor Andrew Scott talks to Today about playing the character of Tom Ripley. There have been many screen adaptations of The Talented Mr Ripley over the years - the most famous with Matt Damon and Jude Law. The new Netflix drama Ripley, based on the novels of Patricia Highsmith, starts this week.
Google DeepMind boss: Knighthood is 'surreal'
March 30, 2024 08:30 - 13 minutes - 12.4 MBSir Demis Hassabis, CEO of Google DeepMind, has been knighted for services to artificial intelligence. He speaks to Today presenter Simon Jack about why becoming Sir Demis is surreal, but also an important recognition of the AI industry. He discusses the opportunities and potential dangers posed by the technology, and why parents should not necessarily be worried about their children devoting time to computers. (Photo: Demis Hassabis, Reuters)
The Today Debate - How do we get Britain working?
March 30, 2024 07:23 - 37 minutes - 34.5 MBThe Today Debate is about taking a subject and pulling it apart with more time than we ever could have in the morning. Mishal Husain is joined by business leaders and health professionals to discuss the UK’s growing problem of economic inactivity, as she asks - how do we get Britain working? On the panel are Theo Paphitis, one of the UK's best known business leaders; Dr Lade Smith, President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists; Dr Tony Wilson, director of the Institute for Employment Stu...
Chancellor questioned on his Budget
March 07, 2024 10:18 - 19 minutes - 17.7 MBAs the dust settles on the Budget, Amol Rajan speaks to the Chancellor Jeremy Hunt about the plans he's set out for tax, public services and the economy. Listen to the Today programme on Radio 4 and BBC Sounds: 6-9am Monday-Friday; and 7-9am on Saturdays.
Esther Rantzen 'disappointed' no assisted dying vote
February 29, 2024 09:36 - 7 minutes - 6.97 MBAre we closer to allowing assisted dying? Or not? The Health and Social Affairs Committee in Parliament has made no recommendation on a vote – but votes might be coming in other places like the Isle of Man and Jersey soon. Dame Esther Rantzen, who has stage 4 lung cancer and called for MPs to vote on assisted dying on The Today Podcast, says she is 'disappointed' a new health committee report doesn’t go that far. Listen to the Today programme on Radio 4 and BBC Sounds: 6-9am Monday-Friday...
Martha's Rule to start in hospitals
February 21, 2024 08:00 - 16 minutes - 15.3 MBNHS England will roll out Martha's Rule from April to give patients and families access to a rapid review if they are worried about a condition getting worse. Merope Mills spoke to Today in September about her daughter Martha, who died just before her 14th birthday from sepsis following an abdominal injury. In the inquest after her death, the coroner ruled that Martha could have survived if she’d received better care. Now Martha’s Rule is coming into force. Merope Mills speaks to Today's M...
Bernie Sanders: It's OK to be angry about capitalism
February 19, 2024 10:11 - 7 minutes - 6.77 MBBernie Sanders has twice run for the Democratic presidential nomination. The left-wing senator speaks to Today's Mishal Husain about his new book 'It's OK To Be Angry About Capitalism'. Listen to the Today programme on Radio 4 and BBC Sounds: 6-9am Monday-Friday; and 7-9am on Saturdays.
The Today Debate: Is justice delayed, justice denied?
February 13, 2024 21:57 - 36 minutes - 33.4 MBThe Today Debate is about taking a subject and pulling it apart with more time than we have in the morning. Amid a significant backlog in crown courts in England and Wales and related problems in the system in Scotland and Northern Ireland, Today presenter Mishal Husain asks if justice delayed is justice denied? Joining Mishal on the Today debate panel are Claire Waxman, the Independent Victims' Commissioner for London; Charlie Taylor; His Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Prisons for England a...
How To Have Sex director talks to sixth formers about consent
February 13, 2024 13:59 - 6 minutes - 5.51 MBMolly Manning Walker’s first feature film How to Have Sex – which explores what it means to consent in a sexual encounter - is going to be used by the charity Schools Consent Project as part of their sex education workshops. The Today programme went to Plumstead Manor School in London to hear Molly talk to four sixth form pupils, who told her they got much of their information about sex from social media. The film has been nominated for four Baftas. If you have been affected by sexual a...
Matt Smith: The Crown star discusses his West End return
February 07, 2024 10:54 - 10 minutes - 9.57 MBAfter numerous roles in high-profile televsion programmes like HBO's House of the Dragon and Netflix's The Crown, Matt Smith is returning to the West End in Henrik Ibsen's An Enemy of the People. Speaking to Today's Martha Kearney, the actor says he found the prospect of being on stage "frightening" at first, but wanted to work with German director Thomas Ostermeier. Martha also spoke to Thomas, who said the production of the play is about "becoming as attractive as a rock concert". Liste...
King Charles III: 'He will be determined to do everything to recover fast'
February 06, 2024 10:16 - 13 minutes - 11.9 MBKing Charles is stepping back from public engagements after starting treatment for cancer. On Monday, Buckingham Palace announced the cancer was found during the King's recent treatment for a benign enlarged prostate. It has not revealed what type of cancer is involved. Speaking to Today's Nick Robinson, friend and former adviser Dame Julia Cleverdon said the King 'will be determined to do everything he can to recover fast'. Nick also spoke to Lord Michael Dobbs, a Conservative peer who ...
Sarah Snook: Beauty ‘has an expiry date’
January 25, 2024 11:47 - 9 minutes - 8.54 MBSarah Snook, who played Shiv Roy in Jesse Armstrong’s award-winning series “Succession”, said of her latest role: “it’s a fascinating story… what does one do with unlimited power gained through youth and beauty?” Snook spoke to Today’s Nick Robinson about the challenges of playing all 26 characters in the one woman play: “There’s nothing like live theatre… it’s for the soul, it enriches you”. She also discussed beauty standards in the film industry: “I think it’s a slippery slope. Defining...
Theresa May: 'During PMQs my blood sugar went up'
January 23, 2024 10:02 - 12 minutes - 11.4 MBWhen Theresa May was diagnosed with type 1 in her 50s, she told the consultant: "I'm too old. I can't be”. Lady May says she would also eat Jelly Babies when her blood sugar dropped during meetings. The former Prime Minister has now chaired a parliamentary inquiry into the life-threatening consequences of having both type 1 diabetes and an eating disorder. She speaks to Today's Justin Webb why a joined-up approach by the NHS is needed so that healthcare professionals are aware of the 'conf...
Dame Emma Walmsley Guest Edits Today
January 01, 2024 09:59 - 1 hour - 68.3 MBThe last of our Christmas guest editors is the CEO of the global biopharma company GSK, Dame Emma Walmsley. She wanted her programme to look to the year ahead with optimism. In these highlights from her programme hear Dame Emma in conversation with the Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby, who urges politicians not to treat their opponents as enemies but as fellow human beings. Dame Emma also speaks to the Health Minister for Singapore; visits Kew Gardens and she asks former guest editor ...
Professor Jason Arday Guest Edits Today
December 30, 2023 10:17 - 53 minutes - 48.7 MBProfessor Jason Arday is our latest Christmas guest editor. This year he was appointed as one of Cambridge’s youngest ever professors. A significant accolade by any measure but even more so when you consider that Professor Arday was diagnosed with autism and global developmental delay aged just three and didn't learn to speak until he was eleven or read and write until he was eighteen. He uses his programme to look at improving adult literacy and he speaks to the head of Universal Music ...
Andrew Malkinson Guest Edits Today
December 29, 2023 11:18 - 49 minutes - 45.5 MBAndrew Malkinson is Today's latest Christmas guest editor. He spent 17 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit before being cleared in July. He uses his programme to look at justice and how one can cope with being locked up unjustly. He speaks to John McCarthy, who was held hostage for more than five years in the 1980s. While in prison, the world of astronomy and space offered Andrew a sense of release and sanctuary from the immediate confines of his daily experience and a way to ex...
Ellie Goulding Guest Edits Today
December 28, 2023 10:51 - 46 minutes - 42.7 MBThe singer and UN environment ambassador Ellie Goulding is the latest Today programme Christmas guest editor. Ellie uses her programme to explore her twin passions of music and nature, including looking at rewilding projects She tells Today's Martha Kearney that nature has helped her through difficult times in her life, including postnatal depression. Ellie interviews fellow musicians Brian Eno and Chris Martin about the music industry's environmental impact. And she goes back to her ...
James May Guest Edits Today
December 27, 2023 11:24 - 44 minutes - 41.1 MBJames May, The Grand Tour and former Top Gear presenter, is Today’s latest Christmas guest editor. He looks at the future of driverless cars and why a culture change may be needed to end conflict between cyclists and motorists. James believes hobbies are good for people’s wellbeing so the Today team assembled a get together with hobby-mad listeners, including comedian Al Murray. He also looks at whether coffee culture is eroding the place of tea and gets a poetry lesson from Succession ...
Hanif Kureishi Guest Edits Today
December 26, 2023 10:53 - 1 hour - 60 MBThe writer Hanif Kureishi - who is our second Christmas guest editor this year - had a life changing accident which paralysed him on Boxing Day 2022. He uses his programme to explore his adjustment to becoming disabled, including its impact on his family and his friendships. Hanif first enjoyed professional success as a writer 1985 with My Beautiful Laundrette, which was Oscar nominated, and he later wrote the novel the Buddha of Suburbia - which became a BBC series - and My Son The Fana...
Dr Nicola Fox Guest Edits Today
December 23, 2023 09:36 - 39 minutes - 36.5 MBDr Nicola Fox, Associate Administrator for the Science Mission Directorate NASA is the first of our Christmas guest editors this year. Her programme looks ahead to the launch of the Peregrine Lunar Lander next year which will start the ground work for sending a crewed mission back to the Moon. Dr Fox, who revealed she was a fan of Duran Duran on her recent Desert Island Discs, talks to band member Nick Rhodes about the influence of space on music. She talks to her counterpart at the Europe...
Stuart Broad: After the Ashes
November 04, 2023 08:30 - 14 minutes - 13.7 MBStuart Broad announced his decision to retire following the 2023 Ashes. Today's Simon Jack speaks to the England bowling ace about his new book 'Broadly Speaking', which takes a look inside his cricket career and life. (Photo Credit: Action Images via Reuters/Paul Childs)
What happens next in Gaza?
October 25, 2023 10:32 - 18 minutes - 17 MBUN aid workers in Gaza have warned they will be forced to end their operation in the territory tonight because of a lack of fuel. The UN Relief and Works Agency provides aid to 600,000 displaced people in Gaza. Israel has allowed lorries containing food, water and medicine into Gaza but is blocking fuel over fears it could be used by Hamas, following the devastating series of attacks. Today's Nick Robinson speaks to former Gaza City resident Najla Shawa, who works for Oxfam, and Major Genera...
'To see my mum again is an incredible thing'
October 24, 2023 07:38 - 23 minutes - 21.5 MBThe daughter of Yocheved Lifschitz, one of the hostages freed last night, has visited her mother in hospital in Israel and has told Today she "seems OK". In an interview with Today presenter Mishal Husain, Sharone Lifschitz said: "The nurses are just having a chat, they say she is very sharp and is very keen to share the information, pass on the information to families of other hostages that she was with." Yocheved Lifschitz was held for 16 days after being abducted from her home in a kib...
Emma Raducanu on her return to tennis
October 20, 2023 11:02 - 11 minutes - 10.4 MBEmma Raducanu burst onto the world stage back in 2021 when she went from being an almost unknown 18 year old tennis player to winning the US Open. She became the first British woman to secure a Grand Slam singles title since Virginia Wade at the 1977 Wimbledon Championships. The media interest in Emma has been huge worldwide due to her stratospheric rise, but her tennis career has been put on hold after three procedures on both wrists and an ankle left her on the side-lines for the past six...
An experiment in "open justice" in the family courts
October 16, 2023 14:00 - 30 minutes - 28.1 MBJudgements made in the family courts can affect families forever, including placing children in care or for adoption. After decades of calls for greater scrutiny of the family courts, at the end of January journalists gained access to report proceedings, in a landmark pilot scheme. Three court centres in Leeds, Carlisle and Cardiff allowed accredited journalists to report cases for the first time, providing the families involved remained anonymous. Our Correspondent Sanchia Berg spent se...
Michael Caine: I'm retiring from film
October 14, 2023 07:27 - 16 minutes - 15.4 MBIn the summer of 2014, Bernard Jordan made global headlines. He had staged a “great escape” from his care home to join fellow war veterans on a beach in Normandy, commemorating their fallen comrades at the D-Day Landings 70th anniversary. It was a story that captured the imagination of the world as Bernie embodied the defiant, “can-do” spirit of a generation that was fast disappearing. But of course, it wasn’t the whole story. It was an inspirational but sanitised retelling of one man’s n...
Why was my neighbour's body not found for two years?
October 02, 2023 09:28 - 9 minutes - 9.08 MBResidents in a south London block of flats are considering legal action against a housing association, after their neighbour lay dead for two and a half years before her body was found, despite their efforts to raise the alarm. 58-year-old Sheila Seleoane, was a medical secretary, who was found in her flat in Peckham last year. For Sheila's neighbours though it had been obvious for a long time that something was wrong. This week we’re looking more closely at Shelia's story, to explore wha...
How could Sheila Seleoane remain undiscovered for so long?
October 02, 2023 09:27 - 17 minutes - 15.6 MBSheila Seleoane lay dead for two and a half years before her body was found - despite repeated efforts to raise the alarm. Sheila was a 58-year-old medical secretary who died in her South London flat in August 2019. In a final report by the BBC's Harry Farley, he goes back to speak to her neighbours. Today's Martha Kearney speaks to Ian McDermott, chief executive of Peabody, the housing association which was Sheila’s landlord.
How can a death go unnoticed in modern society?
October 02, 2023 05:27 - 8 minutes - 7.42 MBSheila Seleoane was found in her Peckham flat in February 2022 and had to be identified by dental records. Her neighbours initially made complains to their housing association, Peabody, about a foul stench and maggots in 2019 – but the housing association only made one “proactive attempt” to contact the tenant and cut off her gas. Miss Seleoane’s last known contact was with her GP in August 2019, and when her body was found, the cause of her death was unascertained due to the advanced stat...
The Today Debate: Drug deaths in Scotland - is decriminalisation the answer?
September 27, 2023 00:56 - 36 minutes - 33.3 MBThe Today Debate is about taking an issue and pulling it apart with more time than we could ever have during the morning. Join Today presenter Mishal Husain, as in front of a live audience in Glasgow, a panel of guests discuss the problem of drug abuse and drug deaths in Scotland. Together they look at different approaches and ask whether decriminalisation is the answer. The panel includes people with personal experience of addiction and those who have seen loved ones derailed. We will als...
Martha's Rule: Challenging culture will make our hospitals safer
September 04, 2023 07:41 - 29 minutes - 27.3 MBMartha Mills was 13 years old when she died in hospital two years ago, after failures by doctors to spot and treat her sepsis. Her parents are calling for hospitals to implement 'Martha's Rule', where patients and their families would be given the right to an urgent second opinion, if they feel their concerns are not being taken seriously by medical staff. Today's Mishal Husain speaks to Martha's mother Merope Mills. (Photo: Martha Mills, Credit: Merope Mills)
'Life's Not Always a Beach' Guest Edit
September 03, 2023 10:30 - 35 minutes - 32.7 MBBack in March, to mark 20 years of the Today guest editors we gave people the chance to apply in teams to make a programme with us. Thousands of you applied and this summer we have been featuring programmes guest edited by those successful teams of listeners. In the last in the series Vince, Fiona, Derek and Lucas invited us to Tenby in West Wales. For their programme they wanted us to look at what happens when the tourists go home from towns like theirs. They don’t think we spend enough t...
Sajid Javid: What can be done to help prevent suicide?
September 01, 2023 08:53 - 16 minutes - 15.3 MBFormer Health Secretary Sajid Javid lost his brother Tariq to suicide in 2018. It is the number one cause of death for young people and biggest killer of men under 50. In a personal report for the BBC Radio 4 Today programme, Sajid speaks to people in Bristol, where he grew up, whose lives have been affected by suicide and also speaks to the chief exec of the Samaritans and other mental health campaigners. He then tells Today's Martha Kearney what he thinks the government should be doing...
Friendly Neighbours Guest Edit
August 26, 2023 10:29 - 33 minutes - 30.3 MBBack in March, to mark 20 years of the Today guest editors we gave people the chance to apply in teams to make a programme with us. Thousands of you applied and every Saturday through August we’ll be featuring programmes guest edited by those successful teams of listeners. Today it was the turn of ‘Friendly Neighbours’. Sudi, Mike, Pol and Sophie are four friends and neighbours from the Kingsdown area of Bristol. At the heart of their community is the Dove Street Estate, a modernist high...
Concert Band Guest Edit
August 19, 2023 10:10 - 38 minutes - 34.9 MBBack in March, to mark 20 years of the Today guest editors we gave people the chance to apply in teams to make a programme with us. Thousands of you applied and every Saturday through August we’ll be featuring programmes guest edited by those successful teams of listeners. Today it was the turn of Anne, Moyra, Alan and Andrew who are all members of the Dunbartonshire Concert Band. They wanted to use their guest edit to explore the benefits of community music. They commissioned a special r...
The Nicola Benedetti Interview
August 19, 2023 09:14 - 11 minutes - 10.3 MBOur programme is guest edited by Moyra, Anne, Alan and Andrew, four members of the Dunbartonshire Concert Band. For their programme they wanted to look at the contribution community music makes to society. The were very keen to hear from the violinist Nicola Benedetti. Not only is she a world acclaimed violinist, but she has campaigned for years for better music provision – especially for children from underprivileged backgrounds. Nicola Benedetti is also “Big Sister” to a social change a...
Good Grief Guest Edit
August 12, 2023 09:17 - 25 minutes - 23.2 MBBack in March, to mark 20 years of the Today guest editors we gave people the chance to apply in teams to make a programme with us. Thousands of you applied and every Saturday through August we’ll be featuring programmes guest edited by those successful teams of listeners. Today it was the turn of Hannah, Cenya and Huzaifah. They are three friends who have all experienced the loss of someone close to them and want to talk about what good grief looks like. Their programme features the fo...
Messy Fostering Guest Edit
August 05, 2023 08:47 - 36 minutes - 33.4 MBBack in March, to mark 20 years of the Today guest editors we gave people the chance to apply in teams to make a programme with us. Thousands of you applied and every Saturday through August we’ll be featuring programmes guest edited by those successful teams of listeners. Today it was the turn of Amy, Jo and Gig. They've called their team, Messy Fostering. Amy who’s now 23-years-old was fostered at 14 by Gig and ended up spending her summers with her teacher Jo. For them, it worked. B...
Today Debate: Is the housing market broken?
July 05, 2023 00:33 - 36 minutes - 33.5 MBThe Today Debate is about taking a subject and pulling it apart with more time than we could ever have during the programme in the morning. Today presenter Mishal Husain is joined by a panel of guests in the BBC's Radio Theatre, where in front of a live audience, they discuss the current state of the housing market. On the panel are George Clarke, architect and broadcaster; David Simmonds the Conservative MP for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner and Chair of the All Party Parliamentary Group o...
The Today Debate: Do we need a Monarchy?
April 25, 2023 20:27 - 36 minutes - 33.3 MBThe Today Debate is about taking a subject and pulling it apart with more time than we could ever have during the Today programme in the morning. Today presenter Mishal Husain was joined by a panel of guests in the BBC's Radio Theatre in Broadcasting House to look at the future of the Royal Family in 'The Today Debate: Do we need a Monarchy?' Joining her were Billy Bragg, the singer and songwriter; Juliet Samuel, a columnist for the Times; Polly Toynbee, a columnist at the Guardian; Charle...
Björn from ABBA's Eurovision highlights
January 31, 2023 10:48 - 23 minutes - 21.7 MBBjörn Ulvaeus has guest edited BBC Radio 4's Today and his programme included a lot of insights and encounters about Eurovision. Hear him talk to one of the British jurors who in 1974 gave ABBA's Waterloo "nul points" - and doesn't regret it! He also discusses with Erasure's Andy Bell, Radio 1's Adele Roberts and UK Eurovision presenter Rylan Clark the appeal of the contest and ABBA itself to the LGBT+ community. Bjorn also speaks to Martin Österdahl, executive supervisor of Eurovision, ...
Sir Jeremy Fleming Guest Edits Today
January 06, 2023 10:52 - 38 minutes - 34.9 MBToday's fourth Christmas guest editor this year is Sir Jeremy Fleming, director of GCHQ, the UK's largest but probably least known intelligence agency. Hear highlights from his programme which centres on the theme of data and trust, including how we all share our own personal information and how intelligence agencies across the world handle that data. Guests include Avril Haines, the United States director of national intelligence, Vint Cerf, one of the founding fathers of the internet, ...
Dame Sharon White Guest Edits Today
January 02, 2023 12:39 - 1 hour - 68.3 MBToday’s final Christmas guest editor this year is Dame Sharon White, chairman of the John Lewis Partnership and former head of telecoms regulator Ofcom. She was named as the most powerful black person in the country in the 2023 Power List. One of the key issues for her programme is how society can help more people who have been in care get into employment – and includes a report from the BBC’s Ashley John-Baptiste, who grew up in care. She also speaks to world renown choreographer Sir Ma...
Anne-Marie Imafidon Guest Edits Today
December 31, 2022 10:13 - 1 hour - 59.1 MBToday’s sixth Christmas guest editor is Anne-Marie Imafidon – computer scientist, CEO and co-presenter of Countdown. Hear highlights of her programme, whose central theme is opportunity. She looks at how we work, how we fund science, and how we recognise the achievements of women which have been lost to history, such as Dr Gladys Mae West, whose maths work paved the way for GPS navigation. We also explore two of Anne-Marie’s big passions – Nigerian food and trainers.
Björn Ulvaeus Guest Edits Today
December 30, 2022 12:54 - 1 hour - 72.5 MBToday's fifth Christmas guest editor is Björn Ulvaeus from ABBA. Hear highlights from his programme, which looks at the impact of Artificial Intelligence and technology on music, the future of democracy and of course Eurovision - the contest which launched Abba's global success nearly 50 years ago. Guests include Dave Stewart from the Eurythmics, the historian Noah Yuval Harari, Andy Bell from Erasure, the boss of Eurovision, as well as its UK presenter Rylan Clark, and former culture min...
Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe Guest Edits Today
December 28, 2022 13:22 - 1 hour - 66.5 MBToday's third guest editor this Christmas is Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, who was detained for six years in Iran - before being freed and coming home nine months ago. Hear highlights from her programme including the voices of families of current political prisoners in Iran and Nazanin speaking to chef Yotam Ottolenghi about why one of his recipes has a special resonance for her - and about the solidarity that can be found in food and cooking. Nazanin also has an emotional encounter with tennis...
Jamie Oliver Guest Edits Today
December 27, 2022 13:14 - 41 minutes - 37.7 MBToday's second guest editor this Christmas is Jamie Oliver, the chef, entrepreneur and campaigner. Hear highlights from his programme in our Best of Today podcast, including interviews with former Prime Minister Tony Blair, and former Conservative Chancellor George Osborne about expanding free lunches in schools and providing a healthy array of options for students. Jamie Oliver has been open about his struggles in school with dyslexia. He says he was told he was taught alongside those with ...