Episode 044 - Harlem Lennox (Part 2)

In today's episode, I welcome Harlem Lennox again! Harlem is a podcaster, actor, writer, and overall creative. This episode is part two of a two-part series because Harlem has so much insight to share! She shares about finding your unique voice, the musical that allowed her to envision herself as an actress, and her specific advice for young, aspiring artists. (Fun fact: the cover image for this episode is of Harlem herself!)

Get in touch with Harlem Lennox: www.harlemlennox.com 

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Episode 44 - Harlem Lennox (Part 2)

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:12]Roman:  All I can do is put my part in to the world.

[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as so beautiful.

[00:00:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Hey, Artfully Told listeners, Lindsey here. Just a quick reminder that this is part two of a two- part series with Harlem Lennox. I am so excited to continue this conversation with her today. So if you haven't already listened to part one, I would highly encourage you to go back, listen to last week's episode first, and then jump on back to this episode because Harlem is fantastic and has so many wonderful things to share. And without further ado, part two.

[00:01:00] So I'm curious. Are there any particular stories or experiences that you've had that have kind of stood out to you as just meaningful moments that you want to hold on to, as it relates to art?

[00:01:14]Harlem Lennox: Yes. So I've got  a bunch and I'm sorting through them in my head. One experience I can say with art that was incredibly meaningful for me was when I saw "The Wiz" for the first time, I did not see it in person. I actually saw it on the TV and it's basically-- I don't know if everybody is familiar with "The Wiz"-- also, please if you're not, see it. You have to. It is a retelling of" The Wizard of Oz," but it had an all black cast. And I remember watching it as a child and I had grown up in like-- of course I had my family and stuff like that-- but outside of that I had grown up around people and artists who were mostly white. And so it was one of those things where it was just confirmation that I could do this too. Like, this is available to me as well. And it's crazy that I just didn't connect the two because of the fact that a lot of the different artists that I was around, that I actually saw in everyday life didn't necessarily look like me. And so when I saw that and saw them dancing, heard the music, it was one of the most fascinating experiences I've ever had just because it was like, not only can I do this-- and it was crazy-- one of the characters that was in the movie actually looked like my mom.

[00:02:56] And so I was obsessed with that. It was Lena Horne and I was obsessed with her for a very long time, ' cause she looked like my mom and it was just-- I watched it over and over and over again. And it was one of those moments where I could not understand how they were able to accomplish that. It wasn't just the way they looked. It was the art itself. Like how are these people able to come together and do these dances? How long did they have to practice? And it gave me a huge admiration for the work that goes into art. I think a lot of people look at the art itself, but me, I also get really, really hung up on, how much work  did you have to put into doing all of those different things? And that's kind of where it started, where I'm watching these people. I'm like, "what did it take to pull off that number?" Like how many times did they have to practice to make it sound like that? And it kind of just snowballed from there where I would learn, you know, I'd go to the art museum and I'd see a Van Gogh.

[00:04:13] And I'm just like how many times he had to paint to get him to where he is today? And I think that's where the work that goes into goes into it, and the behind the scenes that happens, that's where that started when I watched "The Wiz," because I think before that I just looked at everything. It's like, "Oh, that's beautiful. Oh, that's so great. Like, Oh, wow. That's, that's a fascinating piece." But for some reason, I guess I connected with that movie, "The Wiz," on a whole 'nother level. And it just completely opened my mind to the fact that not only is this beautiful art, but there, there are a lot of little pieces that went into it. And I don't think I understood that until that moment.

[00:05:05] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, my goodness. I love that. And I love that perspective because I think you're right. A lot of times we'll just enjoy the finished product and not-- I mean, maybe subconsciously we kind of have a slight awareness of what it takes to do something like that-- but I love that your brain was working in that way.  What did it take to get there? I think that is just so cool ' cause the behind- the- scenes are what-- you know, that's 99% of the time spent on any production. And then the 1% is the final product. And I love your perspective about the paintings and how many did it take? Oh, that's so cool.

[00:05:43]Harlem Lennox: Yeah. Yeah. I do that with dancers a lot. I have a friend of mine who is also a dancer. She's a ballerina. And because of the fact that I was with her through her journey and saw her progression, it was just, I think it makes art that much more amazing when you realize, and really, really like connect with how much went into that. Like, she didn't just start off, you know what is it? Is it called pointe? Like when you're on your... yes, she didn't just start off doing that. And then when she told me she was like, "You know, I'm used to it now, but at first it was so painful and it was like the most..." And I'm just like how, like, you must've loved it so much to actually be able to stick with it. See, and now that I'm talking about dancers, I want to ask you like a thousand questions about your dance career. But yeah, that's kind of when I look at art, it's, it's almost like I look at the painting and I see it for what it is, but I also look beyond the painting and that makes me fall in love with it a thousand times, the more I learn about it. So, yeah.

[00:06:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, it's a fantastic story. Yes. And you know, it's so funny, you were mentioning your friend and her experience with starting pointe and, you know, it's funny because I don't remember this-- I only remember my mom's retelling of this-- but apparently I just remember being so excited to finally--' cause you, you earn it right? You get to a place where you're strong enough that you can go on pointe, and it's a big deal. And I was so excited for my first class and apparently afterwards I came and I sort of just plopped down next to my mom and said, "I don't think I'll ever be a dancer." Not true. I obviously made a full career out of it, but it's so funny because you know, that first experience was really rough.

[00:07:38]Harlem Lennox: Yeah. Yeah. The passion you must've had to stick with it. That's so crazy.

[00:07:46] Lindsey Dinneen: I know, such a learning curve. And I know everybody has those moments. I'm sure even, you know, you've had those moments as an actor or something where you just, you get to a point where like, "Oh, this was frustrating." But then, you know, you love it. So you come back.

[00:08:00] Harlem Lennox: Yeah. Definitely. I've definitely experienced that where it's like, no, this is horrible. I will never be, you know, whoever the famous person is that's doing really well at the particular time that I'm talking about this. Like I'll never be that person. And then you're just like, take a breath and get right back into it. Especially if you love it, just get right back into it. But yeah, I've definitely had those moments. My daughter is actually starting ballet. And she had a moment like that, because the person that she admires that kind of got her started on it was Misty Copeland. And because she's like, "Oh my gosh, she looks like me." And so I realized my whole family has had moments like that where it's like, "Oh my gosh, I could do it too, because this person looks like me." But I remember telling her when she was getting a little discouraged, she had a moment and I said, "You're not working to be Misty Copeland. You're working to be you. You're not supposed to be the next Misty Copeland. This is your story." And yeah, she could be your hero and stuff, but you're working to be the next you, and I cannot wait to see what that dancer does, because the person you're becoming is going to be so amazing in the story that you're going to have to tell. It's not going to be her story. It's going to be yours. So go ahead and have your moment. But remember you're not her. You're you. And so work to be that person. I cannot wait to see what you become, and the story that you have to tell when you get to that point and she was like, "Wait a minute. Somebody can make books about me."

[00:09:38]Lindsey Dinneen: That's beautiful. What a perfect response. I'm like sitting here going, "Okay. Don't tear up." It's just so beautiful. I was serious. I just, I love that. You're right. Yes. Look up to those that you admire in your art form. Look up to them, but be you. Yeah. And how special to be able to share that with her too, you know, and encourage her, even at a, at a young age of just, it's her own journey. And her own journey will be unique and it will be special and it will be hers. And that's perfect. That's beautiful.

[00:10:11] Harlem Lennox: Yeah. Yeah. That's super important to me.  That's one of the other reasons why I wanted to start the podcast because I want people to realize that, you know, you don't have to be the next, whoever it is. Like we need you in particular, like your voice, your whatever it is that you're bringing to the art world is so important and so valuable. Like, yeah, you could admire all these different people and yes, they did great things, but they brought something beautiful to the art world that we never had before. And you're going to do the same thing. If you keep working hard and you know, doing what you need to do. And we need it, like we need you in particular. So your art, whatever it is you are bringing. And I really wish that people understood that, that goes along with the whole thing about we're not trying to take other people's place where we're just adding to the gumbo pot.  I am Creole. And so it's like, we're adding to the gumbo.

[00:11:17] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that.

[00:11:18]Harlem Lennox: The different spices and stuff like that and everything you act just makes it better. And so not everything, but most things, most things that you add to the gumbo pot just makes it better. And so it's like,  if you're dedicated, then you're gonna add something very special and very meaningful to the gumbo pot or the jambalaya or whatever it is. Like, we need you. So come on.

[00:11:41] Lindsey Dinneen: That illustration is the best. I love that. Perfect. Oh my goodness. Yes. So I have a few questions that I always like to ask my guests, if you're okay with that.

[00:11:53] Harlem Lennox: Yeah!

[00:11:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:12:00]Harlem Lennox: Okay. So to me, art can be just about anything. I don't like telling people like, "Oh, that painting -- that's not art. That will never be art." I look at art from a very broad sense where people will probably be like, "Well, then nothing is art if everything is art." But I look at, so for example, my daughter can make something, or my son, or my other son can make something, and I will look at it as art and I will seriously react to it the same way I would react to it if somebody showed me any piece of art.  I look at nature as a form of art. The way that each tree is beautifully unique. And I have an obsession with trees and the way each tree is beautifully unique. And the simple fact that there's all these different changes and stuff like that within the universe.

[00:13:07] And so, 'cause I was actually thinking to myself last night, like even after-- you know, this is so morbid, but even after we're all gone and maybe, you know, like the dinosaurs, humans are no longer on the earth or whatever-- like the world, the earth is still going to be making art.  I look at a lot of different things as art and I define art is anything that gives a person meaning. If you can look at it and feel something within yourself, within your soul deeply. It doesn't matter what it is, whether it's a positive or negative feeling, if you can feel something and it makes you think, then I consider it as art. Did I answer that question?

[00:13:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfectly. That's exactly what I wanted, your own perspective. And I love that. Yeah, I think there's inspiration and art all around us. So I'm, I'm right there with you.  And then what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:14:11]Harlem Lennox: To be themselves and to be truthful about what it is that they are trying to convey, whatever it is, no matter how dark you might feel that it is, or no matter how light it is, because it just-- I feel like if you can feel something and you can get something, some type of meaning from whatever it is, then it is art. And so if you are making, whether it's a piece of music or painting, if you're dancing, whatever it is, if it has meaning, and it is true to you, then I think that is the response. That is the responsibility of an artist. I don't want an artist who tries to be the next whomever. I don't want an artist who, okay, what is everybody liking right now? Let me try to create that. And I understand that people got to do what they got to do to get where they're trying to go. And so maybe they start off that way because they're still learning. But when you get to a point where you're confident enough and brave enough to be able to produce your own work, your own truth, whatever is in your soul, then I definitely think that that people have a responsibility to bring themselves to the art world, because like I said, we need it. We don't need another Van Gogh. He's  here. He did his thing. Thank you Van. But I want to see another whomever it is: Brittany, Sam, you know, Godfrey, whoever. Bring me your art, bring me your truth. Or else it doesn't mean anything.

[00:15:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Beautiful. Yes, I absolutely agree. I just, I don't have anything to say to that. I'm just like, yep, absolutely. So true. Perfect. And then my final question, and I'll define my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is inclusive referring to someone who puts their art out into the world and provide some context behind that, whether that's a title or show notes or the inspiration or something like that, just a little bit behind the scenes. Versus an artist who creates something, puts it out there and doesn't provide any context. So it's left entirely up to the viewer as to the interpretation.

[00:16:41]Harlem Lennox: Okay. So disclaimer, disclaimer. I hate it when people put art out there and don't tell people what the context is behind it. It's very frustrating because of the fact that I like to know the behind- the- scenes. And I like to know what that person was thinking and what inspired them. However, I definitely think that it should be both. I think that all of it, because I like the way that somebody can put something out and they know it's valuable and they know it's going to cause a reaction, but they want whatever reaction that comes from you to be natural. They want it to be something that comes from within you.

[00:17:31] I cannot remember the name of it and I actually tried to look it up, but I cannot remember the name of the artist, but I remember seeing the painting. It was at the Cincinnati art museum. I don't know if it's still there, but it was just like, it was a navy blue, almost like a navy blue background. And then it had these large streaks of just three different colors. And I think it was like red and orange, whatever, and it was abstract art and it, it drove me nuts because I'm looking at it and I'm feeling something crazy behind it. And I remember I went to one of the people that were there giving people tours and guiding people and stuff like that. And I had this very like visceral reaction to it. I'm like, "What is the point of that? Like, what is that?" And I couldn't understand why I was feeling what I was feeling. And she just looked at me like, "Oh, my gosh, you're doing exactly what he wanted you to do." And basically he said that she was saying that a lot of people have the same, like this very emotional reaction to it.

[00:18:39]Some people cried, some people like were angry about it, and it was apparently made during like right after World War II and people were feeling, you know, a lot of emotions and stuff like that. So anyway, so I want to have both. I want people to be able to make art and have a particular intention and be able to say, okay, look at this, like, this is what I'm trying to show you. This is why this is so valuable. But I also want people to be able to make art and allow people to come to their own conclusions and feel their own feelings, ' cause I think both are important even though it is extremely frustrating.

[00:19:22]Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. And I was chuckling. When you were talking about your first statement, your opening statement. I share your opinion. I think that there should be room for both, obviously. But yes, I'm with you in that personally, I would always rather have some context to just, you know, just help me better understand it and appreciate it. Well, so for those who might want to kind of follow your journey, I know you've provided where to find your podcast already, but is there a way for us to connect with you, if you know, we could follow your journey, your acting and, and all of that?

[00:19:57]Harlem Lennox: Sure. Yeah. So you can again, go to my website, harlemlennox.com. I am also on Instagram. I do so much better on Instagram. And that's @harlemlennox, and you can follow me there. I'm actually working on making it better visually and coming up with some other stuff. So stay tuned for that. And then if anybody wants to talk to me or ask me questions or whatever, they can either do it there, or they can email me [email protected]. And then I'm also on Facebook even though, so my Instagram is actually linked to my Facebook.

[00:20:41]Lindsey Dinneen:  Perfect. And since you've had so much amazing life experience for yourself, and also you've now had the opportunity to interview so many cool artists and hear about their journeys-- I'm curious if you have just some advice for somebody who is starting out or who is maybe wanting to be an artist, feeling a little uncertain about following their path. Do you have any advice for that?

[00:21:08]Harlem Lennox: Yes. Number one, make sure that you find somebody who is doing what it is that you want to do and get some insight on what that life looks like. And so that you can make an informed decision. However, even though it seems very counterproductive, if it's something that you really want to do-- like I've had people tell me like, "Oh, you have three kids, but never heard of that." And I just say," I don't accept that. I don't accept that. I'm going to do it anyway." Thank you for the information so that I know what to expect, but if it's something that you really want do in any way, figure out a way to do it anyway. And then make sure that you are informed about the ins and outs of whatever profession that you're trying to go into, if you feel uncomfortable about something, definitely listen to that and try to figure out why. And then just keep going. Even when you get to a point where you feel like this is not working. I don't know what I'm doing. I can never get to where I'm trying to go. Just keep going, keep learning. It's a learning process. It's always going to be a learning process even to win. Even if you get to Bette Mettler status or, you know, James Earl Jones status,  you're still going to be forever learning. So continue to learn and just enjoy the journey. Don't don't think so much about the destination. Think about the journey. 'Cause that's, that's the best part to journey the struggles and all that good stuff. That's the best part.

[00:22:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Thank you for that advice. That was fantastic. And thank you so much for being my guest, Harlem. This has been absolutely incredible and you are so inspirational and I am just smiling so big right now because this was fantastic. So thank you so much for being here today.

[00:23:11] Harlem Lennox: Thank you so much for having me!

[00:23:14]Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. Well, and thank you so much to everyone who has listened to this episode, please do subscribe to Harlem's podcast and check out her work.  She is incredible. And the work that she's doing is so fantastic and important, so please do follow her. And again, thank you for listening and we will catch you next time.

[00:23:40] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:23:49]Hey, Artfully Told listeners, Lindsey here. And I just want to share with you a little bit more about the SpeakEasy Method. Now, if you've had a chance to listen to Gregg Gonzales's interview on Artfully Told, you're already a little familiar with the process that is so unique.  The SpeakEasy Method is for people who are ready to write their books, but maybe aren't super confident about their own writing ability, or just want a more streamlined way of doing it. Gregg and his team at SpeakEasy are experts at these amazing questions that help your authentic voice to shine through. So what they do is they go through recorded audio interviews with you and these recordings are then transcribed and put into manuscript format ready to go. So what's cool about that is instead of months and months, or years and years, of you writing a book, they will actually take you from concept to published and it can be as little as nine months. That is one of the most recent success stories that they have accomplished. And it is just a really innovative method that I am personally so excited to help represent and help share the word about because what Gregg and his team are doing is absolutely life-changing for prospective authors. And I highly encourage you to book a discovery call with Gregg or another member of his team to learn more and see if this could be the perfect fit for you. It's a hundred percent complimentary and you can do so easily by going to his website and that's www.joy-ful-living.com/speakeasy. And again, that spelled out is J O Y dash F U L dash living.com/speakeasy.